I think the horse is cute. It looks like you both need more exposure to the show ring an I think the height you are planning is a safe way to get that. I did notice that a few times your approach to the first fence was very short and he had no time to establish a rhythm. It also looks like his hackamore is sitting a bit low
ignores weight issues (although is there a way that your grandmother could partition off a small area just for him? maybe put him on the “dry lot” at night, turn out in the herd during the day?).
I agree that a portion of his “comfort” at home is that YOU are more comfortable, plus you are carrying more pace.
Now I’ll say that I’m a big believer in starting off in the hunters with greenies. You can school before for 90% of your local shows. You don’t have a confusing course, just basic lines, and overall it removes the pressure of “speed” from your showing (and the courses are so much easier to remember!). Once a horse is confident and not quite so green, then you branch into the jumpers.
Even if you did a hunter division, then a jumper division, that really helps build confidence since they are entering the show ring without the pressure of a crazy course or the speed…and I honestly think it helps the rider relax as well.
I, too, think some are being harsh. I don’t think the horse looks that out of shape. The jumps were not that big. I do agree, though, that nerves may be the root of the problem here…both rider and horse. I can relate, trust me. I ride differently at shows, too.
Is it possible to fine a multiple-day show where you can go and school several times? If this was a one-day show, it may just be too much at once for the green showing horse. I know my horse does better on day two of any show, and I do too! 
Have you done any dressage work with him? It may benefit him to really listen to what you’re asking when you’re coming around the corners, etc. Ride the course as if it’s truly just flat work (good flat work) with jumps thrown in.
If you don’t want to show him, don’t. No biggy. If you do, just take many baby steps.
He is adorable, by the way! Good luck.
[QUOTE=TheJenners;7410608]
I recommend going to shows :yes:. Buuuuut…do flat classes for now. Even if he doesn’t fit in or they aren’t the right class, put him in flat classes and who cares about a $0.18 ribbon. [/QUOTE]
I agree with this. There’s no reason you can’t go show, and can even get your horse fitter with the schedule you have, you just need to have patience and a plan. It took a good year of showing (~once a month) to get my mare totally comfortable going places and bringing her A game when she was there; you guy doesn’t look spooky or nervous in a way that’s unfixable, he’s just looking around at a new place, because it’s interesting and he’s curious. So take him places, let him look around. Don’t make it about ribbons, or showing at X level, just let him go have a good experience, even if it means just doing a flat class or crossrails or whatever. Go to whatever shows you can–local jumper stuff, a dressage show, the local WEnglish circuit, whatever you can do to go somewhere new. Do that until it’s no big deal. He looked like he settle down well by the end of the first round, so I really don’t think it would be that difficult once he had a few shows under his girth.
Four days a week is certainly feasible to get a horse fit. You just need a plan for what you’re doing and how you’re getting there. Don’t go out moseying on trail rides, go do some trot sets like Eventers do, to build muscle and fitness. Don’t just putz around in the ring days you’re flatting, have a plan for what you want to work on with the horse, and make sure you’re not actually working, instead of spending a lot of saddle time socializing or walking or whatever.
[QUOTE=TheJenners;7410608]
OK guys, I think this might be a glimpse into how unforgiving COTH can be. This OP, who is obviously younger, has asked a question and acknowledged some issues with her horse (nervous, overweight). She has been rigidly told over and over that she shouldn’t be showing and that she needs to muzzle her fat old horse. And that she needs to be riding five days a week in a program or else she is wasting her time.
How nice is that?
OP, he’s adorable. I recommend going to shows :yes:. Buuuuut…do flat classes for now. Even if he doesn’t fit in or they aren’t the right class, put him in flat classes and who cares about a $0.18 ribbon. I took my WB to a show and did two flat hunter classes…even though he is NOT a hunter and looked like he was churning butter with his knee and hock action compared to everyone else’s hunter horses. But he needed the experience. And he was challenged and worried, but not overfaced and scared.
Challenge is good. A little worry is good. Fear is not. You want the showing to be a good experience, for you both. Obviously you are also tense, so you showing him in flat classes and everyone “surviving” and having a good experience is great for you both.
PS I think that big white marking over his belly makes him look fatter than he is.
PPS: I can’t ride five days a week either OP, and my horses are ripped :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
Thank you so much. You are a lifesaver! I completely agree with the white marking on his belly!!!
I would do flat classes, but I can’t because I have to ride him in a hackamore due to a bad experience with bits. I tried him in a snaffle a couple months ago and he had an absolute fit (head tossing, bucking, rearing). so…yeah
[QUOTE=Jumper_girl221;7410620]
ignores weight issues (although is there a way that your grandmother could partition off a small area just for him? maybe put him on the “dry lot” at night, turn out in the herd during the day?).
I agree that a portion of his “comfort” at home is that YOU are more comfortable, plus you are carrying more pace.
Now I’ll say that I’m a big believer in starting off in the hunters with greenies. You can school before for 90% of your local shows. You don’t have a confusing course, just basic lines, and overall it removes the pressure of “speed” from your showing (and the courses are so much easier to remember!). Once a horse is confident and not quite so green, then you branch into the jumpers.
Even if you did a hunter division, then a jumper division, that really helps build confidence since they are entering the show ring without the pressure of a crazy course or the speed…and I honestly think it helps the rider relax as well.[/QUOTE]
Thank you fr ignoring the weight issues. The only problem with that is that tbh all of our horses are a bit overweight. I’m just glad they aren’t underweight though. The local shows around here only have dressage and jumpers (and occasionally xcountry). I can’t ride him in a bit. He can’t wear a bit. If you want me to explain this I will… Therefore I can’t show him in anything other than jumping or xcountry with a hackamore. At least I don’t think it’s allowed in hunter or dressage?
I think you should put a lot more mileage on him before moving him up (meaning keep him in 2ft-ish type classes… it looks like one of the classes was close to 3’ and he looked very over faced at that height). I have one who will be 6 this year and while he’s getting fairly brave at home and we’ve schooled him up to 1.20m and he’s fabulous, at the shows he is not very brave at all, so he stays in the .95m classes for now. Like your horse, mine wants to be very careful and so we are encouraging that carefulness and really taking our time… not rushing / scaring him. He will be worth the wait. In addition, we have a very strong bit on him so he has to listen and wait to the base of the jumps and not leave from a mile away.
If this were my horse I’d keep him in low classes until he is very ride-able and not rushing or over jumping before I moved him up a level.
Step back and really be honest with yourself about where your horse is at; both at home and at the shows and then make a plan that is suitable. He looks like he just needs some time and then he’ll be a ton of fun. 
[QUOTE=TheJenners;7410608]
OK guys, I think this might be a glimpse into how unforgiving COTH can be. This OP, who is obviously younger, has asked a question and acknowledged some issues with her horse (nervous, overweight). She has been rigidly told over and over that she shouldn’t be showing and that she needs to muzzle her fat old horse. And that she needs to be riding five days a week in a program or else she is wasting her time.
How nice is that?[/QUOTE]
Exactly! So much nastiness and rudeness. The horse world is filled with “you’re not good enough, your horse isn’t good enough, your trainer isn’t good enough, your barn isn’t nice enough…” and I hate that mentality. You work with what you have and what you can do. It’s a confidence destroyer and a quick recipe for depression to have people tell you things like that. We’re also talking about local jumpers, not HITS Ocala or the winter festival in Wellington. I heard the horse community didn’t used to be like this ($80,000 ponies and snobby attitudes) and I would like to see those days again, when you took your overweight pony with nervousness issues and made the best of it.
You “could” show in the hunters, just would most likely be marked down for unconventional. TBH with a horse that needs confidence, I’d either do it anyway (maybe flip number over) or notify the steward that there’s a bitting issue and you are aware that you will get dinged for an unconventional getup.
OR stay at the 2’ level and ride your course like a hunter course. Use your corners and nice straight approaches. Also walk the course and when riding, COUNT YOUR STRIDES if you are having excessive adds…then move up
I think with more impulsion, you’d have a much happier horse at the show. Also remember you have 45 seconds after the whistle blows to start your first jump. USE IT! Weave around the jumps, trot the whole ring etc. Let him look around and see everything (making sure not to cross the timers) particularly that first jump since once a horse gets going, they usually gain confidence as the course rolls on.
[QUOTE=Jumper_girl221;7410649]
You “could” show in the hunters, just would most likely be marked down for unconventional. TBH with a horse that needs confidence, I’d either do it anyway (maybe flip number over) or notify the steward that there’s a bitting issue and you are aware that you will get dinged for an unconventional getup.
OR stay at the 2’ level and ride your course like a hunter course. Use your corners and nice straight approaches. Also walk the course and when riding, COUNT YOUR STRIDES if you are having excessive adds…then move up
I think with more impulsion, you’d have a much happier horse at the show. Also remember you have 45 seconds after the whistle blows to start your first jump. USE IT! Weave around the jumps, trot the whole ring etc. Let him look around and see everything (making sure not to cross the timers) particularly that first jump since once a horse gets going, they usually gain confidence as the course rolls on.[/QUOTE]
I’ll most likely just not show him again… But thanks for the advice! If I ever actually go to a show again (haha not too likely, my trainer really hates shows I had to beg to even get to this one at all) I’ll probably try one of our other horses. If Rocky was younger, then I would work more with him, but I think I just want to let him live a stress free life trail riding and jumping at home which he absolutely loves.
We unfortunately only have a jumper circuit around here, no hunters.
Honestly, I don’t think it’s his nerves so much as yours. I’m not criticizing you; it’s good news! It means that once you’re able to be a little calmer and more focused at shows, ie more “there” for him, he will probably go nearly as well as he does at home.
The jumps in the video are 2’6 or less. Many COTHers have gone on record to say that until 3’ the horse isn’t even jumping yet. 
I, too, would like to see him fitter but I really don’t think you’re going to kill him by taking him around a few 2’3-2’6 courses. That said, I think you may be comfortable keeping the height lower for the moment. There’s no shame in doing the two foot! Just focus on making it a positive experience for both of you no matter what the height is.
I, too, think your horse could be fitter even with only being ridden four days a week - can you tell us more about your schooling routine? How long you ride for, what you do, etc.?
[QUOTE=french fry;7410663]
I, too, think your horse could be fitter even with only being ridden four days a week - can you tell us more about your schooling routine? How long you ride for, what you do, etc.?[/QUOTE]
My schooling routine is:
Monday (if I can convince my mom to let me go): ringwork (inc. some jumping) and/or hill work
Tuesday: hour long trail ride, mostly walking and trotting through narrow, twisty, hilly trails; this trail ride usually includes some small xcountry jumps and occasionally we head out to the grass jump course afterward for a little jumping
Thursday: same as Tuesday, but sometimes I ride the 4 year old that I’m helping start over fence on this day instead of Rocky http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZrsAr6BOro he’s the buckskin in this video (if he isn’t adorable I don’t know what is!!)
Friday: ringwork. this is kind of a fun day in the ring. I do polework, gridwork, and occasionally some lunging or try bridle-less/bareback. I usually ride 2, 3, or more horses this day so the rides are pretty short
Saturday: Jumping lesson day. Usually in the ring (sometimes on the Jump course previously mentioned). This is the day I usually jump him higher like 2’9+. I don’t always get to ride him this day because we get assigned different horses.
Depending on your goals, I would recommend some different things. On one hand, you say you’re happy at home doing your thing - in which case, keep on keeping on In a few other places though, you let it slip that you’d rather be showing (“I guess everyone else can show and I will be stuck being the photographer,” that sort of thing). A lot of times in life, and especially in our teen years, it’s hard to say what we actually want. We feel like if we don’t say it, it’s not a big deal if we don’t accomplish it, because no one knew we wanted it. The only problem is that it is SO much easier to accomplish something if you know what you want, and those around you know what you want.
If you’d like to show more, cool! It’s fun and doesn’t have to be stressful. Your horse could use a little more fitness so he’s got something left in the motor when he’s already expended energy on being nervous at a show. It would be great if you could get him to the point where you could trot and canter for 15-20 minutes at a time without it being much of a struggle for him. You can still do it out on the trails; just make sure he is really moving along and not shuffling around. For now, I would focus more on getting him a little more fit than on jumping. You can still jump in your lesson, but his jumping will be even more fun when he’s got a longer-lasting motor.
He is really cute and looks like he could just use some miles and perhaps some horse equivalent of the gym.
Yes jumpinstarr…they look very healthy and do not thin the herd. It is refreshing to know they are well kept and happy. I seems he is perfectly able to get over the fence. I will agree that it appears there is a bit of show nervousness playing into the situation and some horses actually learn to take advantage of a rider in a show situation. So I disagree with not showing. Take him in there, sometimes “blow” the class. Go over the same fence twice, change it up, if he gets spooky make a trot circle in that area. After a few times of this (which will also settle your nerves the more you do it). Then go whoop em! You have enough talent and horse to do it. Almost every horse I know could “lose” a little but I am glad I am exposed to that rather than the opposite. We all have to struggle with competing against money in the horse show World. that is the biggest challenge without doubt! All you can do is ride what you have and do the best. Show him every chance you can. He is not scared and he is perfectly capable of it or he would not be able to pop over at the last minute.
[QUOTE=jumpingstarr;7410682]
My schooling routine is:
Monday (if I can convince my mom to let me go): ringwork (inc. some jumping) and/or hill work
Tuesday: hour long trail ride, mostly walking and trotting through narrow, twisty, hilly trails; this trail ride usually includes some small xcountry jumps and occasionally we head out to the grass jump course afterward for a little jumping
Thursday: same as Tuesday, but sometimes I ride the 4 year old that I’m helping start over fence on this day instead of Rocky http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZrsAr6BOro he’s the buckskin in this video (if he isn’t adorable I don’t know what is!!)
Friday: ringwork. this is kind of a fun day in the ring. I do polework, gridwork, and occasionally some lunging or try bridle-less/bareback. I usually ride 2, 3, or more horses this day so the rides are pretty short
Saturday: Jumping lesson day. Usually in the ring (sometimes on the Jump course previously mentioned). This is the day I usually jump him higher like 2’9+. I don’t always get to ride him this day because we get assigned different horses.[/QUOTE]
You remind me of me when I was a teenager. I had an Appaloosa that I jumped around the Child/Adult (3’6") jumpers at the rateds around my area. When I first started I had a ‘program’ much like yours, with a lot of jumping and a lot of what I considered ‘fun’ since I was limited on how much I could ride as well. Due to this he was waaaaay overweight as well and had nerves and confidence issues. We always had a lot of issues because his lack of fitness made it so he had to propel himself at the fences in order to feel like he could jump them. He could not hold himself up well enough to bend correctly around the corners, and while he could jump a 4’ course, he did not do it correctly or well.
My aunt rides FEI dressage. She finally got sick of waiting around to let me and my trainer figure things out. She bought me a month of lessons with a top dressage trainer in my area. He pointed out to me that my horse’s lack of fitness was my fault and that I needed to correct the way I approached our time together. It became very apparent to me that it was not the quantity of riding that was lacking it was the quality.
I realized that I had to make the choice about what I wanted to do with my horse. Did I want to show him, or did I just want to ride him around for fun? I chose to show him and replaced romping around the woods with dressage ring work. I only jumped once a week for a long time, mostly grids to build his confidence, and dressage to build his strength. After he started to get stronger and fitter, I realized that it was fun riding him in the ring after all and that I didn’t miss the jumping every day.
We started showing again and he started placing at 3’6" at A and AA rated shows in south Florida. He went around with confidence because he was strong enough to hold himself correctly and did not have to rely on his momentum to wing it over a fence.
I shared this with you because I feel like our situations were similar. I think that when you have a horse that does not move in a natural self-carriage that you must work harder at the building blocks of jumping (which is dressage…not just flat work, but actual dressage) in order to stack the deck in their favor and help them to do what you want them to do. If you do not build off of these blocks with horses like ours I feel like they easily lack confidence because they aren’t sure enough of their ability to jump the jumps (think a big guy who lifts weights and is physically active, but who has a beer belly trying to jump hurdles…)
Just don’t give up! You are a good rider and he is a cute jumper. You just have to work on building up the dressage foundation a little bit.
[QUOTE=jumpingstarr;7410631]
I would do flat classes, but I can’t because I have to ride him in a hackamore due to a bad experience with bits. I tried him in a snaffle a couple months ago and he had an absolute fit (head tossing, bucking, rearing). so…yeah[/QUOTE]
I rode in a hunter class with a fig 8, and I wasn’t laughed or shamed out of the ring.
This bears repeating about 1000X, not just for the OP but for a lot of people. I’ve got a work schedule that limits how much I can ride, and the reason I mentioned a plan in my earlier post was that it’s how you have to approach things if you have a set number of days and goals you want to accomplish. I generally do something like what you mentioned, Stoney447. We do flatwork/dressage (sometimes a dressage lesson, at least once a month, more as budget allows) two days per week. One day of hacking out, and generally not goofing around–walking up and down hills builds muscle, but not a strung out moseying walk on the buckle thing, so we go out, at all three gaits, doing what is essentially flatwork, outside the ring. I generally only jump once per week, and it’s in a lesson, sometimes in two lessons if I do the barn gymnastic session on the weekends. That’s it, and the thing that’s really improved our jumping the most hasn’t been jumping. It’s been the increased dressage to improve gait quality and build balance.
There is absolutely no reason this horse cannot go do local shows, and probably even smaller rated stuff in the Children’s with a little more work and experience. But you have to have a plan and put in the work to make it happen. You’re getting a lot of good advice here, from some very experienced posters, on how to make that happen.
OP- He’s a cute guy. If you would enjoy showing him, go for it. Since you’ve only shown 5x, this is a great opportunity for you to learn how to introduce a green horse to shows so you’ll be ready when the 4 yr old you mentioned is ready to show.
For the next few shows, you need to ignore the fact that you’re riding “jumpers”. Plan your trip for class 1 by thinking about what will make your boy happier to walk in the in gate for class 2. Don’t just learn the course- plan your visual focal points, corners and how to engage his mind before the things he might find scary. Stick to the low classes and ride every course like a hunter trip. Go all the way to the rail and try to get a consistent rhythm. If he’s getting rattled, throw in some trot/walk transitions. If you’re disorganized & he’s going to refuse, circle. You get the same number of faults either way- better it be a good school at this point than a scary experience.
I think you’ll find your nerves are a bit better when you know you’re riding to make it positive for your boy, not worrying about the win. Ride the plan that’s right for your horse and eventually it will become the plan that wins the class.
[QUOTE=Stoney447;7410785]
You remind me of me when I was a teenager. I had an Appaloosa that I jumped around the Child/Adult (3’6") jumpers at the rateds around my area. When I first started I had a ‘program’ much like yours, with a lot of jumping and a lot of what I considered ‘fun’ since I was limited on how much I could ride as well. Due to this he was waaaaay overweight as well and had nerves and confidence issues. We always had a lot of issues because his lack of fitness made it so he had to propel himself at the fences in order to feel like he could jump them. He could not hold himself up well enough to bend correctly around the corners, and while he could jump a 4’ course, he did not do it correctly or well.
My aunt rides FEI dressage. She finally got sick of waiting around to let me and my trainer figure things out. She bought me a month of lessons with a top dressage trainer in my area. He pointed out to me that my horse’s lack of fitness was my fault and that I needed to correct the way I approached our time together. It became very apparent to me that it was not the quantity of riding that was lacking it was the quality.
I realized that I had to make the choice about what I wanted to do with my horse. Did I want to show him, or did I just want to ride him around for fun? I chose to show him and replaced romping around the woods with dressage ring work. I only jumped once a week for a long time, mostly grids to build his confidence, and dressage to build his strength. After he started to get stronger and fitter, I realized that it was fun riding him in the ring after all and that I didn’t miss the jumping every day.
We started showing again and he started placing at 3’6" at A and AA rated shows in south Florida. He went around with confidence because he was strong enough to hold himself correctly and did not have to rely on his momentum to wing it over a fence.
I shared this with you because I feel like our situations were similar. I think that when you have a horse that does not move in a natural self-carriage that you must work harder at the building blocks of jumping (which is dressage…not just flat work, but actual dressage) in order to stack the deck in their favor and help them to do what you want them to do. If you do not build off of these blocks with horses like ours I feel like they easily lack confidence because they aren’t sure enough of their ability to jump the jumps (think a big guy who lifts weights and is physically active, but who has a beer belly trying to jump hurdles…)
Just don’t give up! You are a good rider and he is a cute jumper. You just have to work on building up the dressage foundation a little bit.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for sharing your story! I’m so glad you understand. I would love to learn more about basic flatwork and dressage. See when I say lesson I mean more of a supervised ride. My trainer isn’t really the vocal type. She basically sets up the jumps and tells us what order to do them in… of course she’ll help if there’s a problem, but for some reason she just doesn’t really focus on me. Probably because I’m definitely one of the more advanced riders in the group. And she’s my grandmother so its not like I’m paying for board or lessons or my horse or anything. So I really would love some dressage lessons, but i just don’t see it happening tbh. Plus, I’m fairly confident any dressage trainer would just laugh at me…
Stoney447 and JenEM are giving you absolutely great advice. I would highly recommend considering what you want to focus on (show or fun - not that showing isn’t fun!) and if you want to show, get serious about your flatwork. It’s not dull, I promise; a supple, fit, light, responsive horse is a joy to ride!
When you do jump, I’d focus more on grids and less on courses. You can tell from your show video that the two of you don’t really have a rhythm or a consistent eye for distances - those are totally common, totally fixable problems but it’s going to take some diligence! On your flat school days I’d also recommend setting up some cavaletti and working on getting the exact same strides/takeoff points each time. Getting to know exactly how much canter you should be asking for around the course, developing a rhythm, etc.
