Hello TB enthusiasts!
Please view this5 yo TB…and tell me what you think…He is ottb…has a hairline fracture with ‘good prognosis’ an allaround nice guy, 15’3"…please tell me what you do and don’t see in his conformation. I am wanting to use him to foxhunt…eventually.
His pedigree…out of Delaware Township, by Notebook, and out of Raise a Kiss.
http://www.lopetx.org/horses-available/alert/horses/alert-brother-1.jpg
Supposively has real nice feet. Have not seem him yet.
Thanks mucho…:yes:
[QUOTE=mary beth;4611899]
Hello TB enthusiasts!
Please view this5 yo TB…and tell me what you think…He is ottb…has a hairline fracture with ‘good prognosis’ an allaround nice guy, 15’3"…please tell me what you do and don’t see in his conformation. I am wanting to use him to foxhunt…eventually.
His pedigree…out of Delaware Township, by Notebook, and out of Raise a Kiss.
http://www.lopetx.org/horses-available/alert/horses/alert-brother-1.jpg[/QUOTE]
Okay, rule number one: unless he is a medical miracle, he is BY Delaware Township out of Raise a Kiss. It is NEVER correct to say a horse is “out of” a stallion, for reasons that should be obvious.
So, I’m assuming (since I can’t find him on LOPE’s page) this is Raise a Kiss’s 2005 colt That’s All Brother.
His pedigree’s unremarkable (usual suspect names) and his race record is decent. http://equibase.com/premium/eqbHorseInfo.cfm?refno=7628724®istry=T He ran on the second of this year and managed a respectable third.
He’s badly set up for that photo so its’ hard to say. Nothing leaps out at me that says “NO” but the way it’s standing it’s hard to have an opinion about his back end. He neck and head look a tad out of proportion to his body but it might just be the picture.
Suitabilty for foxhunting–wrong fourm to ask about that, but I did just buy a foxhunter prospect from Finger Lakes and honestly, my number one priority was SOUND. No injuries to the legs, full stop. Do they say which leg the fracture was on? To which bone? Also, if you have field hunter in mind, ask about manners and behavior–my guy (Lucky) was notable to his trainer, the vet who did my PPE, and some FLTAP volunteers as being calm, sane, sound. His exercise riders enjoyed working him and he rated when asked.
It might just be me, but he looks a tad over at the knee…if he truly is, that’s not something I’d want in a potential foxhunter.
You need to go look in person because the person who took this picture and published it is not doing the present owner any favors.
I do not like horses with a lean motor and this one appears to be that way.
Nice head, kind eye, long looking neck, shoulder is nice, nice chest, left knee does look over but with that ugly, squished up pose it’s hard to be certain. Makes him look somewhere between his front legs being too under him and being calf kneed. Any other photos of a better stance? I blew up the photo as best I could and looks like an ankle on the left at least, tendons are straight though. Topline, again that squished up pose gives him a short coupled look but that’s probably still going to be there after stretching him out. Back end doesn’t look very powerful. Has some filling out to do though, he’s just 4.
My favorite thing is the lead is just looped through the (off side?) halter. I’m also wondering where the fracture is.
Yes, he has a kind eye and nice head, but where is the fracture located?
Can you get the x-rays and send to your vet?
My MIL has foxhunter for 30 some years…she always tells me any horse (sound) can foxhunt if they have the disposition. Jumping comes with time, training and experience…So my question would be if he is going to be sound to jump with time and are you willing to give it to him?
I’ve seen all shapes and sizes turn out to be nice foxhunters. We’ve taken several of our racehorses and turned them into foxhunters as well.
It’s hard to really judge this guy conformationally. The only thing that really is noticeable to me (or rather that caught my eye first) is he probably rides with his head high. He’s got thicker muscles on the under side of his neck. Being over at the knee wouldn’t bother me at all, back at the knee would.
The first thing and most important thing is to get the xrays to your vet. Ask alot of questions… how long has he had off so far, and what his “treatment” has been. I also have to agree that you need a sound horse to hunt. But dont be discouraged by a hairline fracture either… I had a filly on the track with a fractured knee… gave her time off and rehomed her to a H/J barn, she went on to have a very succesful jumper career (level 5 I believe).
He’s cute, the right size, and looks like he’s standing quiet enough in the pic. Meeting him in person and looking at those xrays will tell the tale though.
Good Luck!
When you do go to look at him in person, please be sure to post the pictures you get of him standing up good & straight.
Other than the upside down neck, I like him fine. I like his gaskin, looks powerful there to me.
You will have to spend some time and effort getting him to correct that inverted posture. He’s apparently been carrying himself like that for some time, never learned correct carriage. Expect him to have a sore back now, but once you have changed the way he carries himself, if his disposition/attitude is fine, he looks a useful sort to me. If he has raced adequately like this, rebalance him and he could come back as a racehorse much improved and sounder in the future… his race career could not be over, once the crack has healed up.
Cautious use of draw reins will show him that there is another way to carry himself OTHER than completely inverted. Use them to get him to lower the head, then give away the contact to get him to carry himself rather than hang on your hands and use you for balance (racehorses are taught to do this). He has probably already been galloped in draw reins already, but on a constant pressure, which doesn’t teach him anything, it just crams his head down so he can’t run off on the exercise rider. Rather than use them to force his head down and keep it there, use them to teach him something. Once he has learned, you won’t need them any more. Once his head is down and his frame is rounder and soft, he will find that he can use his hind end better, encourage him to step under himself, and his hind end will grow bigger and stronger, more muscles, and any back problems he has had will dissapear. Once his head is down, his back round and his hind end engaged, then you will want to work on raising the front end again to get him light on the front end, but not until these basics are covered.
Nancy, wondering why you think this horse was galloped in draw reins already? It’s very few and far between to see horses on the track galloped in them.
I always like to restart my guys lunging and using sidereins (very loose at first)… Moving on to draw reins only if they are just not getting it.
I can’t say that I’ve ever seen any horse galloping in draw reins before. I really wouldn’t want to be the one riding them if that had them on either. A chin to the chest and no brakes…no thanks!
I really like him. I mostly look for the horses with a short back, then tend to be super comfortable to ride and are a bit more uphill when they canter so its just a plesent ride all together. I’d say go for him! Hes nice!
Thank you…very informative responses. he’s already gone…! good for him…bad for me…?? I still picked up quite a bit form the coth !!
I think I am getting more attracted to ottb’s…why not?
THANKS.
MB
Careful, OTTBs are like potato chips. Can’t have just one. (I’m on my second.) And there are LOTS out there–check out FLTAP’s trainer listings as a lot of those horses are being wintered over or are at other tracks with the same trainers. Some fantastic bargains, too–Lucky was a steal at $600.
Oh drawreins on galloping racehorses have been quite common in my experience! I agree, quite scarey, chin on chest and no steering, since they don’t use a second rein as well that is attached to the bit. “Too confusing to use two sets of reins”. I’ve seen racing draw reins for sale in tackshops! The same width as regular race reins, with rubbers and big loops to go through the girth on extended lengths of rein in front of the rubbers. Unbroke horses and poorly started horses in training at the track… they are not uncommon. Just because they allow the rider to stay on their back doesn’t mean they are correctly broke or ever learned adequate carriage! Some learn and develop adequately correct carriage DESPITE the riding and training they get! (You have got to love the ingenuity of the TB) Others don’t, and carry themselves poorly, which effects their soundness and power. I bought one just like this years ago now, 7 years old, completely inverted, and a run off artist because of it. He galloped in draw reins for various owner/trainers in the years before I purchased him in an attempt to thwart his run off aversions. It took a year to change his posture, using draw reins CORRECTLY, in addition to a regular rein of course. Changing his posture also fixed his back problems, which he had been prevously treated by a chiropractor for regularly before I bought him.
Fix the posture and carriage on a horse with this problem, and it is possible that you have a whole different horse than the one that you bought.
But it seems that someone else has already bought this prospect anyways. I hope they have success in making some changes in him.
Uh…again, never run into an OTTB who even knew what draw reins were, myself (and they tended to NOT enjoy it when my old h/j trainer threw them on, along with every other training aid she could find.) Where are you runing into track gallopers who use them? If anything it would make it even more dangerous for the rider…
Draw reins
Bush tracks, bull rings and b circuit tracks.
Hastings Park. Vancouver. A variety of equipment is used, whatever someone thinks is a good idea. Not everyone who trains racehorses is a brilliant horseman, nor makes good decisions all the time. Three ring snaffles made an appearance a few years ago, and gags, now and again. And german martingales. I used to be sent out on one years ago with that contraption. Didn’t like it much, would rather have draw reins than that. At least with draw reins and a set of real reins as well, the draw rein can be loosened or dropped at the rider’s will, not so with the german martingale. Have seen a few pelhams, a hackamore every now and again. Then I read the Nearco book, and saw that he used to be galloped in a pelham LOL. And that certainly was not Hastings Park.
Glad he found a home! Plenty more out there.
As for foxhunting . . . I hunt an OTTB and there are several in my hunt.
It’s hard to know whether you have a foxhunter until you try it. That’s true with any breed. With ex-racehorses you can have the added challenge of explaining to them that they do not need to be first :D.
For my boy, that took two years of riding before we hunted. When I first got him he Would.Not.Go.Second. He was always fine when he was in front, but if you put another horse in front of him, he would throw a huge tantrum and practically hurl himself onto the ground.
He did get over it and he’s actually turning into a super hunt horse – brave, catty, and surprisingly “rateable” in the field. It took patience and a lot of hacking out in groups always changing his position in the field to teach him that.
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