Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance

[QUOTE=cssutton;2890872]
Mountain lions?

I don’t know why we are talking about mountain lions. I missed the point.

I do understand that there are wild hogs in VA.

In the parks even. I wonder if that is an interesting topic for the forum.

Does anyone here know anything about wild pigs? I have not seen any myself. But I never have visited any of the parks where I have heard they can be seen.

Are you allowed to shoot them?

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.[/QUOTE]

I guess your reffering to this article and yes your are trying to sling mud. but for what purpose to get this site and the people on it to not join.


                         THE VIRGINIAN-PILOT 
          Copyright (c) 1995, Landmark Communications, Inc.

DATE: Friday, May 19, 1995 TAG: 9505190519
SECTION: LOCAL PAGE: B1 EDITION: FINAL
SOURCE: BY SCOTT HARPER, STAFF WRITER
LENGTH: Long : 121 lines


OFFICIAL CHASTISED FOR SHOOTING PIGS THE CONSERVATION DIRECTOR BROKE NO LAWS, SAYS GOV. ALLEN, BUT SHOOTING THE PIGS WAS WRONG.
Gov. George Allen formally reprimanded the state director of conservation and recreation Thursday for pulling a .45-caliber automatic handgun and shooting two wild pigs at False Cape State Park late last month.

The governor met privately with his conservation chief, H. Kirby Burch, and told him: ``While you did not violate a law, you clearly took advantage of your position,’’ according to a one-page statement released by Allen’s office late Thursday.

``The general public would not be able to drive through the park, stop their vehicle and shoot a feral pig,’’ he was quoted as telling Burch, a political friend and hunting partner of Allen’s. The governor appointed Burch last June.

Allen based his reprimand on a report, also released Thursday, compiled by the state internal auditor from interviews of 13 state park officials who saw the shooting on April 26.

Late that afternoon, the report said, Burch stopped a four-vehicle caravan carrying about 40 officials to a dinner meeting inside False Cape in Virginia Beach after he noticed two pigs on the side of a dirt road.

He loaded his handgun with an ammunition clip and shot the pigs while standing just outside his Jeep. Burch killed the first pig, which weighed about 40 pounds, with a shot to the head.

The second pig, a sow weighing about 140 pounds, was shot in the spine but was still alive when Burch left. He did not shoot again to kill her because, the report said, ``there was only one bullet left which might be needed for protection from other feral pigs.’’

Two department staffers later shot the sow to death with a service revolver borrowed from a park ranger. Both pigs were dressed and prepared for fare at a barbecue honoring Virginia National Guardsmen.

Burch broke no hunting or personnel rules, the report concludes, nor did he endanger any hikers or park visitors, because the park was closed to the public that day and gates to the access road were locked.

Still, the report calls Burch’s actions that day ``not a wise decision.’’

As an agency head, the director should be aware that his actions are closely scrutinized by state employees and members of the general public,'' the report says, and even the appearance of an impropriety is inappropriate.’’

Two regulations that received particular attention from investigators were a prohibition on hunting within 100 yards of a road, and a personnel rule that bars state employees from carrying weapons on state time.

Burch did not violate either rule, auditors and lawyers concluded. The dirt road inside False Cape which Burch shot from is not part of the state highway system,'' the report said. The Department of Transportation had no record of any public access roads into this area and does not maintain the property.’’

On the personnel matter, Burch was cleared because of a department rule that permits employees or officers of state parks to carry firearms inside parks. As the chief officer of state parks, Burch is allowed to carry a weapon, too, the report said.

Further, the report said conduct rules apply only to classified employees and not gubernatorial appointees such as Burch.

The report noted how several witnesses were disturbed at observing the shooting, especially since they had no warning that shots might be fired.

Burch told investigators that he hunts with ``due attention to humane treatment of animals,’’ the report said. But in this case, he was forced to leave the scene for lack of bullets and because he was needed at the meeting. ILLUSTRATION: Photo

H. Kirby Burch

Color photo

Graphic

EXCERPTS FROM THE STATE REPORT

Here are excerpts from the state auditor’s report on the False

Cape pig incident:

There were four vehicles traveling to a meeting at the

Educational Center within False Cape State Park. The first vehicle

was the Director’s personal vehicle carrying the director and three

other members of DCR (Department of Conservation and Recreation)

management, followed by a state van carrying nine DCR employees. The

third vehicle was a state-owned Explorer carrying five DCR

employees, followed by a state-owned bus carrying additional DCR

employees.

``The Director (H. Kirby Burch) stated that he had an unloaded

.45-caliber automatic handgun in a piece of luggage located in the

back of his jeep. After entering False Cape State Park, another DCR

employee riding in the back seat handed the gun to the Director, who

was sitting in the front passenger seat. At the scene of the

shooting, the Director stated that he removed a loaded clip from the

glove box and loaded the gun. None of the witnesses contradicted

this statement.

``The Director shot two feral pigs; he first shot a small pig

weighing approximately 40 pounds and next shot a sow feral pig

weighing approximately 140 pounds.

``The Director stated that he is an avid hunter who hunts in a

responsible manner with due attention to humane treatment of animals

and to human safety.

``The Director stated that the second feral pig (sow) was still

alive after it fell. However, the Director decided not to fire

another shot at the pig since there was only one bullet left which

might be needed for protection from other feral pigs. The director

stated that he could not get a clear view of the fallen pig or get

any closer to its direction to continue shooting. Also, he stated

that one bullet hit the pig’s spine which is usually a fatal shot.

``The Director decided to leave the scene and to immediately

return to retrieve the pigs, so he marked the spot of the fallen

pigs, got back into his vehicle and continued to the Education

Center. Two of the employees riding with the Director volunteered to

retrieve the feral pigs, since the Director was needed at the

meeting.

``The two employees stated that the small pig was dead when they

returned but the sow was still alive. The employee then fatally shot

the sow with the service revolver. They returned with the pigs,

which were then cleaned and prepared for cold storage.’’

I have no interest in seeing anyone who is doing his job getting fired.

Its just that it is frustrating not knowing who made the remark.

Even if the warden’ name can not be made public, surely the warden could divulge the name or names of the persons in VDGIF that made the statement.

One warden can not end hunting with hounds. That has to be done either by the legislature or by VDGIF.

Without names, we have to assume that no one on the VDGIF board has made the statement that hunting with hounds will be ended in 5 years.

This makes a lot of difference in how we petition VDGIF. Without names, We have to accept that they are acting in good faith.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

[QUOTE=cssutton;2890877]
I have no interest in seeing anyone who is doing his job getting fired.

Its just that it is frustrating not knowing who made the remark.

Even if the warden’ name can not be made public, surely the warden could divulge the name or names of the persons in VDGIF that made the statement.

One warden can not end hunting with hounds. That has to be done either by the legislature or by VDGIF.

Without names, we have to assume that no one on the VDGIF board has made the statement that hunting with hounds will be ended in 5 years.

This makes a lot of difference in how we petition VDGIF. Without names, We have to accept that they are acting in good faith.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.[/QUOTE]

Your just one man. who do you represent ? You are a member of Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance and other groups. We aren’t afraid of mud slinging and we won’t stop from our agenda. are you through or do you have more stones to throw. Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance will be the voice of its members and will fight to preserve their hunting dog rights for future generations.

I have thrown no stone nor slung no mud.

I am simply trying to learn who on VDGIF made such a remark, if any did, because who and whether does make a difference in how we petition them.

Asking that question is not throwing stones or slinging mud.

A suggestion as to a way to approach them rather than fighting them is not throwing stones or slinging mud.

I will petition the board with the assumption that they are good people who need to hear from us in a reasonable manner.

I represent only myself, but I do hold and have for probably 15 years or so a non resident VA hunting license, as does my wife. Since the game commission runs on revenue from permits, my VA license is as valuable to them as anyone else’s.

I foxhunt in VA 12 months of the year and I belong to a deer club that hunts with hounds.

My opinions are my own and not that of the deer club and their name has never been mentioned in any of my posts.

CSSJR

[QUOTE=cssutton;2890896]
I have thrown no stone nor slung no mud.

I am simply trying to learn who on VDGIF made such a remark, if any did, because who and whether does make a difference in how we petition them.

Asking that question is not throwing stones or slinging mud.

A suggestion as to a way to approach them rather than fighting them is not throwing stones or slinging mud.

I will petition the board with the assumption that they are good people who need to hear from us in a reasonable manner.

I represent only myself, but I do hold and have for probably 15 years or so a non resident VA hunting license, as does my wife. Since the game commission runs on revenue from permits, my VA license is as valuable to them as anyone else’s.

I foxhunt in VA 12 months of the year and I belong to a deer club that hunts with hounds.

My opinions are my own and not that of the deer club and their name has never been mentioned in any of my posts.

CSSJR[/QUOTE]

Claude good luck with your petitions.

Now is the time to call your legislators in the Virginia Senate or the Virginia House of Delegates TODAY and politely tell them that DGIF has gone to far! Tell them you want them politely to support the restructuring of the DGIF Board!

No offense, but take a look at the hits on this forum.

Yours got a couple of hundred.

The one on which saddle to buy got over 2000.

You can see the priorities of the folks who post on this forum. There isn’t much hunting talk on this forum. Unfortunately.

Derick:

I say again that this strategy needs rethinking.

If you go to the SAOVA site and look under the Virginia politicians //saova.org/Virginia6.html

You can count 14 politicians who will then have input into who is on the VDGIF board.

Of the 14, 11 are either endorsed by the AR’s or have been playing footsie with the AR’s.

That leaves only 3 who would definitely be on the side of hunters.

This is a very risky spot for us to be in: 11 to 3 to get board members we would be happy with.

This looks to me like the old saying “Be careful what you wish for because you might get it.”

We should be working with the board members we have. They are a known quantity.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

[QUOTE=cssutton;2891410]
Derick:

I say again that this strategy needs rethinking.

If you go to the SAOVA site and look under the Virginia politicians //saova.org/Virginia6.html

You can count 14 politicians who will then have input into who is on the VDGIF board.

Of the 14, 11 are either endorsed by the AR’s or have been playing footsie with the AR’s.

That leaves only 3 who would definitely be on the side of hunters.

This is a very risky spot for us to be in: 11 to 3 to get board members we would be happy with.

This looks to me like the old saying “Be careful what you wish for because you might get it.”

We should be working with the board members we have. They are a known quantity.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.[/QUOTE]

The Board members that are in position now are playing footies with HSUS and Peta and following political winds nothing has changed. DGIF and those that would end hunting are generally using two tactics. The first is to say that we are ignoring a widespread problem of trespassing. Anyone one that hunts knows there are slobs among us, as there are with fishermen, golfers and tennis players. We must learn to police our own by reporting violators and speaking out against members of our own groups that do not live up to the highest ethical standards. Please work to be a good neighbor!

They have now produced a nebulous number of 900 complaints about hunting dogs between last hunting season and now. This is something that they said they did not have records on. It doesn’t say how the complaint was resolved or who was at fault! They pulled this one out of thin air!

The second tactic being used is to say that we are attacking loyal DGIF staff that are our friends. That we are not telling the truth about their actions and motives! This often takes the form of personal attacks against us a group and the individual VHDA leaders. The record is clear. DGIF’s actions dispel doubt in any fair minded individual, the remainder do not want the truth! which are you?I stand firm in the direction Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance is going.

t has been pointed out to me that I was too hasty is using the SAOVA VA legislators in my last post, as they are the persons who serve in congress, not the General Assembly.

So I wish to correct that reference here.

However, the question is still a serious one. Eaxctly who in the legislature is an avoowed supporter of hunting and who is an AR fellow traveler?

If you don’t know who is going to be on our side and who is not, it is a risky tactic.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentrit has been pointed out to me that I was too hasty is using the SAOVA VA legislators in my last post, as they are the persons who serve in congress, not the General Assembly.

So I wish to correct that reference here.

However, the question is still a serious one. Eaxctly who in the legislature is an avoowed supporter of hunting and who is an AR fellow traveler?

If you don’t know who is going to be on our side and who is not, it is a risky tactic.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentrit has been pointed out to me that I was too hasty is using the SAOVA VA legislators in my last post, as they are the persons who serve in congress, not the General Assembly.

So I wish to correct that reference here.

However, the question is still a serious one. Exactly who in the legislature is an avowed supporter of hunting and who is an AR fellow traveler?

If you don’t know who is going to be on our side and who is not, it is a risky tactic.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentri

Please excuse that last post.

My mouse has gone nuts and I get unintended results.

The post should have been thus:

t has been pointed out to me that I was too hasty is using the SAOVA VA legislators in my last post, as they are the persons who serve in congress, not the General Assembly.

So I wish to correct that reference here.

However, the question is still a serious one. Exactly who in the legislature is an avowed supporter of hunting and who is an AR fellow traveler?

If you don’t know who is going to be on our side and who is not, it is a risky tactic.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentri

Depends on who the politicians audience is. You’ll get different answers based on who is paying to attend their reception or campaign fundraiser.

Of course - that’s just politics 101.

[QUOTE=J Swan;2891330]
No offense, but take a look at the hits on this forum.

Yours got a couple of hundred.

The one on which saddle to buy got over 2000.

You can see the priorities of the folks who post on this forum. There isn’t much hunting talk on this forum. Unfortunately.[/QUOTE]

I see your point but it is here if and when they get interested. Thanks

Anyone?

Does ANYONE know what involvement the MFHA has had here?!! What foxhunts are involved too?!!! What are the mounted foxhunters doing!??

Not anything they want discussed on the Internet. That’s a pretty safe bet.

KIRBY WILL BE DOING A LIVE INTERVIEW TONIGHT AT 9PM WITH NRA’S CAM EDWARDS.

live interview on the NRA News with Cam Edwards tonight at approximately 9:40 PM. It is available on Sirius Satelite Radio Channel 144 or can be heard on the computer at www.nra.org. The show starts at 9:00 PM.

Dogs at Bay

Friday, Dec 28, 2007 - 12:09 AM

If someone moved to Manhattan and then complained that there was no place nearby to go fly fishing, you’d think he was a couple of cards short of a full deck. Likewise, if a Manhattanite moved to Kilmarnock and then complained that there was no deli within walking distance, you would wonder how many ants short of a picnic he was.

But according to the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries, some newcomers who have moved to rural Virginia have been dismayed to discover people hunt with dogs. Indeed, tens of thousands of Virginians do just that – sometimes noisily, and often at hours that must seem odd to city folk.

There has been an increase in complaints about dog hunting. Complainers have been particularly upset when hunting dogs stray onto their land and the hunters show up to retrieve them.

No doubt some hunters trespass on the patience, never mind the property, of their neighbors, and could use a refresher course in etiquette. On the other hand, it’s slightly ridiculous to move out of town in search of the charms of the country – and then gripe about it when you find them.

Hunters should do their best to keep their dogs off the property of people who haven’t given permission to hunt on their land. But newcomers should also realize property lines in the great outdoors can be difficult to discern. Maybe they should acquaint themselves with an old country trick that’s often used to discourage unwanted guests: building a fence.

[QUOTE=J Swan;2891330]
No offense, but take a look at the hits on this forum.

Yours got a couple of hundred.

The one on which saddle to buy got over 2000.

You can see the priorities of the folks who post on this forum. There isn’t much hunting talk on this forum. Unfortunately.[/QUOTE]

You can’t always accurately measure interest in a thread by number of hits. It’s hard to know how many hits are unique viewers, and how many are repeat visitors who come back to check out new posts.

Although this thread has almost as many posts as the saddle thread, which should theoretically generate almost as many views if there was equal interest, you need to consider that many of the posts here were made in a short time, reducing the chance of repeat views between each post.

Also consider that this thread has only been around a few days, at a time when many regular readers are away from their computers doing holiday stuff. That will cut down the number of views.

By contrast, the saddle thread has been around since March. When a thread goes dormant for a while and then gets bumped up with a new post, it gets a flurry of new views. Some of those may be repeat viewers coming back to see what’s new, and some may be people who missed it or weren’t interested the first time. This thread hasn’t been around long enough for that to happen.

True. Very true. Call me cynical, but I’ve met very few foxhunters that are interested in this matter. I can’t tell if it’s because they don’t understand, or they just want to ride and don’t care much about hunting. I met a lot of people just in the past few weeks that gave me a blank stare when I even mentioned this study in casual conversation.

It’s fine either way - folks foxhunt for different reasons and there is nothing wrong with that. For those who live in a rural area, and have to constantly deal with the influx of people who have no respect for the community in which they live - it’s more important than the color of one’s stock tie.

I can’t help but recall a thread, on this very BB, in which a newcomer to the country was upset by the neighbor - an apiarist. She wanted him to keep his bees on HIS side of the fence.

Often - that is the mentality one has to deal with. A leash law for bees. :sigh:

Agreed - it is depressingly frustrating when the apparent majority of people seem woefully unable to grasp the simple fact that they will never have to worry again about the color of their stock or what saddle pad to use or how to keep their hands from freezing when braiding if there is NO HUNTING.

At a minimum, it is nice to keep abreast of current events.