Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance

J. Swan:

It is apparent from your posts that you are pretty sharp, so I am sure you have grasped the significance of the bee story.

The bees should be welcome on the concrete kid’s property. They sure are on mine.

On the other hand, if the neighbor put the bee hive right on the lproperty line and the concrete kid’s house or yard or pool or whatever is within a few feet of that line, then the bees would make CK nervous, as it would me.

And there is a kinship there between the bee owner and the foxhound owner.

It is one thing to cast hounds right on the line with intructions to go over the line.

It is something else to be hunting a mile away and have hounds chase a hunted fox across the line.

Both sides should get it.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

The point is, there is only so much control that can be exerted upon an animal. I may have an apiary on my farm. It may pose no danger to anyone. It may not even be near a fence. New neighbor moves in and complains about the bees - well - geez - how does she know they’re my bees? So it begins - the constant harassment, the calls to the county; I’ve seen it happen. It’s happening here. Seems like once the county has its first Starbucks, all hell breaks loose.

My beagle trespasses. I admit it. She’s a pretty smart little beagle, but alas, she has yet to learn how to read. I can recall her. But, especially on farmland, property lines are not easily discernible. So if my little beagle trespasses, I have a responsibility to retrieve her.

It happens with my neighbors too. You know, yeah, it can be annoying to be out and about, especially on a green horse, and have a hound dog jump out of a hedge and shout BOO. But I get just as irritated when a wood duck, deer, turkey, snake, or any other animal does it. Irritated because I’m riding a green horse and the knucklehead thinks everything is a predator. Living in the country means lot of animals about. Lots of noise. Farmers bringing in crops. Spraying fields. Biosolids application. Blech.

It’s normal. I love to hear my neighbors rooster. It’s great. Yippee.

But I digress.

This entire “study” has been blown completely out of proportion. The ONLY thing the GA tasked DGIF with doing was examining the right of retrieval. And that was ONLY because there are a few jerks (and you know who you are and shame on you) that abuse this very necessary right. Citizens contacted their state reps to ask a new law be made. Unfortunately, the bills drafted really didn’t work - as this is really a regulatory matter - one of interpretation by game wardens, and mostly an enforcement matter. Wardens were having trouble nabbing the bad guys, because it’s too easy for the bad hunter to use the “right of retrieval” excuse - when in fact - he’s abusing the rights of the property owner.

No excuse for that. None.

What has happened, is that DGIF went overboard. And the invitation of animal rights groups, is not coincidental. What a person has to ask themselves is this:

Why are animal rights groups being invited to private meetings - meetings in which the only issue is supposed to be property rights/right of retrieval?

Your answer is - they shouldn’t be. Again, the right of retrieval, and its abuse, was the SOLE issue the GA charged DGIF with resolving.

What was supposed to happen is that DGIF would meet with hound/hunting groups in Virginia, discuss the problem, and come up with a solution, and report that solution to the General Assembly.

However, since hunters have been purposefully (and I really think it was purposeful) permitted to do nothing but send an email or write a letter - the deck has been stacked against all hunting.

The sad thing is that the money that is being spent on this study, just to date, could have paid the salaries of at least two game wardens. Those game wardens could have worked in the very area many of these complaints originate. As we know, the role of game wardens is varied. They not only act as law enforcement, but they can be a tremendous resource to the community - helping resolve problems between landowners, hunters and anglers.

I have been following this issue for many sessions. What I had hoped would happen last session is that DGIF would simply meet with hound hunters and hammer out a solution. I even expressed confidence in their ability to do just that.

I was wrong. The second I found out about the AR groups - knowing what I do about their current campaigns - I have to admit I’m furious and DGIF has lost my confidence. Of course - the safari scandal didn’t help.

What needs to happen is that the study needs to be halted. If there are tangential issues with leadership at DGIF, or the method in which that leadership is chosen - those may be very legitimate issues - for the near future. But now - the study needs to be stopped before it spirals further out of control.

However, since pretty much nobody except HSUS or PETA reps are permitted to comment - I’d say it’ll be a cold day in hell.

I don’t understand why VT is muttering about removing hunters to eliminate a predetermined outcome. Since only the abuse of the right of retrieval was supposed to be up for discussion, the only outcome expected was a way in which to STOP the abuse of that right.

Hope that gives a bit more background for folks that might not be familiar with how this “study” came into existence.

I agree with what you say.

However, I am convinced that the present VDGIF is what we must work with.

Putting all of your bets on doing away with the present board and have a new one nominated that is in our mold is sort of like making all of your investments on the assumption that the US will return to the gold standard.

It might be the best, but it is not here and might be a long time coming.

So what to do in the meantime?

The best we can with what we have got.

CSSJR

I repeat now is the time to call your legislators in the Virginia Senate or the Virginia House of Delegates TODAY and politely tell them that DGIF has gone to far! Tell them you want them politely to support the restructuring of the DGIF Board!

click on this link and send them an email and let them know how you feel.

http://leg1.state.va.us/081/mbr/MBR.HTM

J. Swan:

Is the ride to hunt community aware that there is a big push on the part of bow hunters and black powder hunters to stop hound hunting during their season?

I know the turkey hunters feel the same way.

This will ruin cubbing and the good hunting in September and October.

It will also in some areas shorten the spring end of the season because of the gobbler season.

Ride to hounds folks had better wake up. Don’t think this big push against hounds is only against deer hounds.

It will affect everything from rabbits to coon to fox to deer.

You had better get with it or else get used to doing without it.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

I can’t help you on that one. The mounted hunters may not be aware, but I would be surprised if most, if not all, leadership (of hunts) is aware, at least at some level.

I’m afraid I’m neither a mover nor a shaker, so have no direct knowledge. Any comment I make is purely as a private citizen, and should not be taken as anything more than that.

Actually, I should be out hunting today but I’m not.

I think it’s rather ironic that hunters would start fighting amongst themselves. First, the divide and conquer strategy has been effective at toppling governments and countries for what - over two thousand years? Those folks can’t figure out that infighting does nothing but cause our own ruin? I have read and followed what other hunting groups are advocating and/or espousing- and I tell you what - it is not only shocking, but deeply and profoundly disappointing.

Second, and more importantly, hunters could follow the example of other groups that have similar problems. Bicyclists come to mind. Motorists sharing the road with bicyclists. Mounted traffic, Driven traffic. Motorcycles. It’s the same type of conflict. Me Me Me, the motorists are more important. I simply must have the road to myself, the bicyclists have to find someplace else to ride. Other groups using the roads are pushing back - saying - SHARE. Share the road. In our case, share the hunting grounds. It doesn’t have to be a conflict. There is no reason for conflict.

Like an angry parent fed up with bickering children, the parent simply takes the toys away from all of them and sends them to their rooms. Sportsmen must hang together, or they will most assuredly all hang separately. (sic)

Happy hunting. (for now)

I have nothing to add but have been following this thread with great interest. What about the Sportsmans Alliance? I know that our hunt and members support it and see it as one line of defence against the ARs. They seemd organized and perhaps could provide some direction? Don’t they lobby too?

[QUOTE=xeroxchick;2898421]
I have nothing to add but have been following this thread with great interest. What about the Sportsmans Alliance? I know that our hunt and members support it and see it as one line of defence against the ARs. They seemd organized and perhaps could provide some direction? Don’t they lobby too?[/QUOTE]

I have been is talks with Sportsman Alliance and they do not lobby in the General Assembly but on the federal level.

USSA, SCI, NRA issue lobbying

[QUOTE=Hokieman;2898771]
I have been is talks with Sportsman Alliance and they do not lobby in the General Assembly but on the federal level.[/QUOTE]

Your infomation is erroneous - again. USSA, by itself and in coalitions, has lobbied in at least ten states in the last two years.

[QUOTE=Bob Kane;2899736]
Your infomation is erroneous - again. USSA, by itself and in coalitions, has lobbied in at least ten states in the last two years.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry Bob your wrong, when I consulted with Derek Shivley that was one of the first things I asked. and was informed they had no lobbyist in virginia that lobbyed the general assembly. now if you know who they are then post their names.

Hey guys - this is usually the only forum in which there are no kennel fights. Can you two newcomers help us keep it that way? Take it to PM or offline or something.

If I want to listen to folks argue, I’ll arrange a family dinner.

J. Swan:

Excuse me, but I am trying at this moment to decide whether to contribute to USSA and I would like to hear the answer.

I am sure that there are other lurkers with the same problem.

We see these associations, one after the other, advertised, junk mail requests, etc., but the guy on the street has no way to vet them.

So lets see what shakes out of this discussion.

I you know the answer already, then please post it and settle the discussion.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

This Resolution was passed by Charlotte, Brunswick, Mecklenburg
and Lunenburg Counties and is currently under consideration in at
least seven other Counties.

Ask your Board of Supervisors to help now!

A Resolution of the Brunswick County Board of Supervisors Where as Brunswick County has a tradition of hunting with dogs and specifically with hounds that is as old as the County; and Where as the Brunswick County tradition of hunting with dogs provides significant economic benefit to the county and her people; and Where as the Brunswick County tradition of hunting with dogs significantly contributes to the public safety by controlling excess wildlife populations that would otherwise increase automotive collisions, crop and other property damage, and disease control; and Where as the Brunswick County tradition of hunting with dogs, especially hounds, is practiced on the vast majority of land in Brunswick County and is a source of revenue and a major resource management tool; and Where as the Brunswick County tradition of hunting with dogs is a wholesome family oriented heritage that teaches self-reliance, individual responsibility, and the values of community and stewardship of our GOD given natural resources; therefore Be it resolved that the Brunswick County Board of Supervisors supports our Heritage of Hunting with Dogs, especially hounds, and opposes any studies or actions on the part of Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries and Virginia Tech as detrimental to that tradition. Be it further resolved that the Brunswick County Board of Supervisors in support of our Heritage of Hunting with Dogs, especially hounds, hereby calls on the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries to work to increase communication with hunters and their hunting organizations and to increase law enforcement of the existing laws.

[QUOTE=J Swan;2900195]
Hey guys - this is usually the only forum in which there are no kennel fights. Can you two newcomers help us keep it that way? Take it to PM or offline or something.

If I want to listen to folks argue, I’ll arrange a family dinner.[/QUOTE]

Your correct and I appologize. I did go back an email Derek again to be sure. If I am wrong I’ll be the first to admit it. Thanks

[QUOTE=J Swan;2900195]
Hey guys - this is usually the only forum in which there are no kennel fights. Can you two newcomers help us keep it that way? Take it to PM or offline or something.

If I want to listen to folks argue, I’ll arrange a family dinner.[/QUOTE]

Jessica,
I apologize to the Board. I shouldn’t let my frustration intrude here. Seeing the mutually supportive Virginia sportsmen-DGIF relationship threatened by misguided and misinformed individuals, self-serving rabble-rousers and animal rightist facilitators is extremely difficult for me. Observing HSUS’s continuing successes and our responses to them isn’t pleasant. I’m too old, crotchety and after 30+ years, no longer have the patience for much of this work.

:yes::sigh:

Law to help dog owners gets test
December 29, 2007 12:35 am
BY ELLEN BILTZ

BY ELLEN BILTZ

A new law that makes it illegal to remove a tracking collar from a dog will get tested in Caroline County.

State game officers have charged a Caroline man with violating the new statute and believe it is the first case since the legislature passed it earlier this year.

David Schwartz, 28, of Milford, is charged with removal of a tracking collar and destruction of property, said state conservation officer Ryan Shuler.

Shuler said a legal snare trap was set up on Schwartz’s property that a dog wandered in to earlier this month. The dog died, its collar was removed and later destroyed, Shuler said.

During the last General Assembly session, a law was passed making it illegal to remove a dog’s tracking collar. The law was backed by the Virginia Hunting Dog Owner’s Association.

Bob Kane, the group’s president, said he is encouraged to see that state game officers were aware of the new statute and able to bring the charge.

“There were too many of these instances where dogs were being killed and they were never recovered because their collars were removed,” Kane said.

If convicted, Schwartz faces a maximum of 12 months in jail and up to $2,500 fines on both charges, which are class 1 misdemeanors.

Ellen Biltz: 540/374-5424
Email: ebiltz@freelancestar.com

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

No apologies necessary - this BB is comprised of horse people, and we often get into serious disagreements about training methods, veterinary care, and other things. Plus, I don’t run the board so you can tell me to shove it any time y’all want.

But the hunting forum seems to be relatively civilized in comparison to the other forums on this BB. Meaning, we don’t usually get into the back and forth stuff. Actually, I’ve found the folks on this forum to be the most helpful and friendly. Just like in real life.

Plus, a great many folks that visit this BB are PETA and HSUS members. A few are even zealots. Word to the wise.

Interesting about that collar removal prosecution. I bet it will be plead down, but it’s nice to know that law is on the books. Sorry about that dog. I never did find out what happened to those PETA employees who were arrested because they were stealing hunting dogs and throwing away their collars. Am I to assume their lawyers got it either plead down or dismissed?

Did they ever find out what happened to all the dogs they stole? Since they don’t run any shelters, and tend to kill any animal they pick up - I’m assuming they killed all those hunting dogs, too.

Many of those hounds are stolen just for their tracking collars.

I watch several of the hound sites and it is almost a fact that stolen hounds have tracking collars.

So the thief sells the dog and the collar.

I no longer put tracking collars on hounds that are easy to catch. Only the pups that might get lost or take off after a deer, which enables be to track them and punish them as well as retrieve them.

I think the case you are referring to is in the courts at the present time, but you know how the courts work. Slowly! Continuances, etc.

CSSJR

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor’s right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

Editorial: Hunting for truth about hounds
A Virginia study of hound hunting and the conflicts it causes will allow informed debate.

Hunters sometimes are a paranoid bunch. The slightest hint of scrutiny sets them off defending tradition against encroaching modernism. It is therefore no surprise that a Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries review of hunting with hounds has hunters reflexively on the attack.

If they would take a minute to think about it, though, they might see that the study is the best chance to ease tensions between hound hunters and other residents of the commonwealth.

State game officials initiated the “Hunting with Hounds in Virginia: A Way Forward” project last summer when they suspected complaints about hound hunters were on the rise. With help from Virginia Tech, the department is studying complaints and speaking to stakeholders on all sides. It will try to determine what, if any, problems exist and how to fix them equitably.

DGIF fielded more than 900 calls during the last two hunting seasons, but the full scope of the problem remains undetermined because many calls about troublesome hunters go to local sheriffs. Moreover, the legitimacy of most complaints remains unknown.

Hunters should welcome research that would clarify the situation. Without it, an increasing number of citizen complaints about what are most likely a few troublemakers eventually will instigate General Assembly action. Better that policymakers have facts on hand for that debate and carefully considered recommendations from game officials.

One of the most common complaints arises from an oddity of Virginia law. Hounds now may run across private property and hunters may enter – even past posted “No Trespassing” signs – to retrieve them. Many people understandably do not want strangers and their animals traipsing across their land without permission.

It is a conflict between two of the commonwealth’s core principles. Virginians sanctified the right to hunt in their constitution, but they also hold private property rights sacred. Hunting should not trump the fundamental right of citizens to be secure on their property.

For their final recommendations, DGIF officials might consider hound-hunting rules used in other southern states. In Georgia, for example, hound hunting is permitted on large private tracts with the owners’ permission and on leased lands. That approach, according to Peach State officials, has tremendously reduced incidents of dogs straying onto private property.

First, though, Virginia needs the facts. Hunters can either help make sure the hound report includes their perspective or complain about conspiracies and go unheard.