Virginia's Troubled Racing Industry

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=Hunter’s Rest;8217318]
Strawberry Hill was eliminated when the car track took over the old state fair.
Montpelier is in great shape. Foxfield is going good guns. Gold Cup/s have never been larger. The point to point circuit/s are healthy.
And all of this without parimutuel (which is the point of the whole conversation.)
Adding parimutuel will boost all racing - flat, harness and jump.
The track location is a moot point given that the license holder has the license for web-based betting. Renting portable mutuels is no longer required.
It’s not a ‘suggestion’ of racing coming to NoVa. It will happen in the next 12 months. And yes of course bring a picnic blanket. Ask the patrons at Kentucky Downs how well it works. Talk about a cash cow in the middle of nowhere. A good track that was born a jump course that morphed into a Grade 1 level turf venue.[/QUOTE]

All very interesting but out of touch with reality. A couple days of racing in NVA is not going anywhere in the whole scheme of things. Charles Town, running 365 days with a casino is just across the river. Numerous VA mare owners send their mares to WV, MD, PA, and KY Like the late Ned Evans. Not one serious stallion prospect in VA. Harness racing has absolutely no following in VA like DE or ME.

I wasn’t aware about the Web based mutual but like stakes status it’s moot in a state without established tracks with well funded purses and infrastructure.

I wish what you have said was true but it is not. I was journeyman in the horse industry beginning in the 60’s. I know when a horse is “on the Bill Daly” and when it’s been pulled up.

[Shammy_Davis]

I know it seems like I am trying to rain on the future of VA horse racing, but that is not the case because I dreamed of being involved in horse racing as a kid. Never got there, but had a great deal of manure dropped at my feet as a farrier and sport horseman . I was fascinated with TB’s. The only Kentucky Derbies I missed were when I was overseas in the military. I was mesmerized by the first Kentucky Derby televised in B/W. I make no apologies for starting this thread.

I just think it time for the state industry and racing commission to take an honest look at itself. Even C. Fred Kohler, a director of the VA Horse Association, President of the now defunct Virginians for Horseracing; and a past President of VTA, et al, was skeptical that horseracing had a future in VA as it was organized and said so a few years following the VA General Assembly establishment of horseracing that he promoted and lobbied for.

Here is a link to a 1999 article where he honestly discusses the problems and conclusion that ultimately came true. No one in leadership listened. No one! Here it is 2015 and the Virginia Equine Alliance is trying to pull it all together on a “wing and a prayer.” For give my sarcasm, but pigeon racing is probably more popular in VA than horse racing and probably has a larger fan base currently.

http://www.via.vt.edu/spring99/horse.html

Nationally, the horseracing industry needs to be paying attention to what is happening in VA. MA is threatened annually. NH’s Rockingham Park disappeared without much notice or argument. ID is one state that horsemen came to their senses and revived racing. Now we’re seeing ID owned horses racing in OR and Northern CA. States like MD, PA, NY, TX, LA, etc. are solid examples of horsemen that have identified with KY, FL, CA and survive on the basis that a strong racing organization is required to support sales, breeding, and associated TB industries within the state.

There is a great book now out of print, I’m sure, titled “Thirty Tons A Day” by Bill Veck. It is about the beginning of the end of Suffolk Downs. He probably didn’t know at the time that the “end” of horseracing in Boston would be an annual occurrence.:lol: Enjoyeable read though.

States with struggling TB industries should not be naive. With casinos and gambling involved on and off track premises, horsemen need to wise up. In the case of Jeff Jacobs and Colonial Downs,VA horsemen leadership and the racing commission gave Jacobs a gun and the bullets. They should not have been naive to believe that Jacobs would not have pointed it at them. When a gun is pointed at you, you need to be smart enough to know it might go off. Even accidentally.

Also here is an interesting link that is informative about VA Horseracing and Gambling.

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/agriculture/horseracing.html

[Meany]

[QUOTE=Hunter’s Rest;8216550]
Gaaaaaaaaaaaah!
You guys - the BRIEF shift to Maryland for the graded races is a POSITIVE thing, not negative.
The graded races will lose their grades if they take time off.
The track/s where the Virginia Equine Alliance will run the Old Dominion Derby (nee Virginia Derby) and the other races won’t be ready this season!!
Yikes!
No wonder racing is in a bad place, with ‘supporters’ coming out like this!
Steeplechasing is fine - it has not ever relied on parimutuel. Adding it at a couple jump meets added a lot (a LOT) to the purse account, and simulcasting the Kentucky Derby was a great addition.
Next year there will be graded turf races at a location in northern Virginia -it’s not been officially released yet but you all can guess where. There will be parimutuels at a harness meet in central Virginia, and possibly a few county fairs with already established trotters.
This move is a GOOD thing not a bad thing.
Comparing this to what happened in Tennessee is bizarre at best - I grew up there and my dad galloped at the old racetrack in Brentwood. I went to college in Alabama - I’ve seen all 3 and trust me, Virginia is in great shape.
LOCAL horsemen stand to benefit A LOT b/c the general public here (all over Va.) wants to bet and bet they can, now, with a new beneficiary of the ever-growing purse accounts.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for bringing some [well-founded] optimism to this thread.
Virginia Horsemen have an opportunity to take some control of their own fate. Good things are happening.

Personally, I wonder if some of the fee of us who aren’t based in NoVa shouldn’t be inquiring about doing something at the Horse Center. There’s a significant amount of infrastructure already in place for horses and I’d think any place that can host the level of eventing offered at the Horse Center would be able to support steeplechasing and maybe a few turf races for the rest of us. Plus the proximity to interstate 64 might be a good thing. And I81 of course.
Harness horses appear able to run on anything. I bet they could spin 'em around the parking lot in true county fair style. no disrespect intended.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

IT DOESN’T MATTER IF THERE ARE STALLIONS OR A RACETRACK OR MANY DAYS OF RACING IN VIRGINIA.
That the VEA now holds the PM license means that lots of dough is filtering into a dandy purse account.
That money will be paid out to local horsemen in a couple dozen days of flat (turf), 'chase and trotter races designed to favor the horse base here.
Officials in charge of planning the race cards hold the reins in this case.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

Meany
I don’t believe there’s a big enough flat-ish spot at VHC is there?
Trust me, folks. It has been determined where and when.
Those things will be made public very soon.

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=Hunter’s Rest;8218048]
IT DOESN’T MATTER IF THERE ARE STALLIONS OR A RACETRACK OR MANY DAYS OF RACING IN VIRGINIA.
That the VEA now holds the PM license means that lots of dough is filtering into a dandy purse account.
That money will be paid out to local horsemen in a couple dozen days of flat (turf), 'chase and trotter races designed to favor the horse base here.
Officials in charge of planning the race cards hold the reins in this case.[/QUOTE]

You are very naive. The value of a parimutuel license is insufficient to support an industry that requires tens of millions to operate.

In its last year of racing Colonial withheld $500.000 of PM from the horsemen. That’s nothing to keep growing a sport with the problems Kohler points out in 99. A top trainer in NY, CA, FL, etc clears that in percentages on a good stakes week.

You sound like a career politician spouting the party line.

The logistics alone to organize, license, employ, train, etc. people to work a few days a year not cost efficient nor practical. The fact is you are looking at employing a great deal of part-tmers who do not have any experience. The last I drove by the Oak Ridge harness track a month ago it appear to be more pasture than racing surface. Chasing was tried there and failed miserably. Harness was a failure too. No one in VA supports it. Picnic blankets are required at Oak Ridge.

One correct thing you’ve said is that VHC wouldn’t handle racing plus it has financial problems of its own. Too flat-ish?

With all due respect, your unsupported facts to this thread make my point that optimism should not take the place of clear thinking, good planning, and reliance on successful experiences. None of which have been exhibited in VA in the past or even today.

Everyone should be able to read between the lines on this. If VA has racing in a year it will occur next to a few picnic baskets and if fans need a seat it’s bring your own.

I for one would appreciate some facts on this, not unsupported comments. Maybe you’ll get back with some that is above gossip and cocktail conversation.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

There is information that is not yet public. It will be released soon.
There are no employee costs in this model. Few facility costs.
Much of what Fred Kohler said that was true in 1999 is no longer valid.
There are many active harness horsemen in the commonwealth who would disagree with your assessment.
IT DOESN’T MATTER IF PEOPLE ARE SITTING ON PICNIC BLANKETS.
What matters that there will be (is) a lot of money to give away, already now, and far more as months tick past, and that it will indeed be given away to horsemen.
With or without your support.
This is not a subject ‘being bandied about for debate and ideas!’
It is a done deal, with exciting implications, a real 2015 timeline and statewide, industry-sweeping applications.

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=Hunter’s Rest;8218541]
There is information that is not yet public. It will be released soon. . .[/QUOTE]

That would be nice.

In 2010 the VHIB/Weldon Cooper Center released this impact study on the entire industry. If you haven’t seen it, it might be of interest to you. Check out the Table 3.5 on OTBetting attendance and in-house betting at Colonial Downs. In the year of the study based against the population of VA of 8 million plus the PM participation was less than .05% of the population and the study included out of state resident attendance.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/956de6_ed7f2aebce774ac2b1edd58810f4ae13.pdf

I know you want it to sound like I’m not being supportive and provocative to the VEA effort but that is not the case. I’m not the loose cannon you are trying to make me out to be. I don’t appreciate you posting information about the historical state of the VA horse industry that is not true such as you have stated about the good condition of harness and chasing. Nor do I appreciate you conjuring up fairy tales to make it sound like something is definite, when it is not. As I have provided, references containing facts is always appreciated not just your or other member disclaiming my veracity or observations.

Further, anyone who knows anything about horseracing in this nation, can tell you that VA racing (in whatever PM form) will be definite when the state racing commission (not the VEA, VTA, or HBPA) says it is. Not before. Everyone in this state and nationally will be able to see it in the commission minutes and probably in the DRF and BH. So if you are not going to post a VA Racing Commission decision, I’ll continue to hold my breath. Looks to me like as you have (as you previously stated) inside of 12 months to come up with something.

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=Hunter’s Rest;8218541]
There is information that is not yet public. It will be released soon.
There are no employee costs in this model. Few facility costs.
Much of what Fred Kohler said that was true in 1999 is no longer valid.
There are many active harness horsemen in the commonwealth who would disagree with your assessment.
IT DOESN’T MATTER IF PEOPLE ARE SITTING ON PICNIC BLANKETS.
What matters that there will be (is) a lot of money to give away, already now, and far more as months tick past, and that it will indeed be given away to horsemen.
With or without your support.:o
This is not a subject ‘being bandied about for debate and ideas!’:eek:
It is a done deal, with exciting implications, a real 2015 timeline and statewide, industry-sweeping applications:concern:.[/QUOTE]

Your resume says you are a journalist in addition to being all things horse. Is this your scoop?

Like I suggested, nothing is definite until the VRC says it is. Published April/May Minutes of VRC indicate a modification in the structure of some organizations, but it appears that VA’s AG is reviewing those. Transcripts of the most recent VRC meetings are not published yet but April and May don’t indicate any expedited actions. My goodness this is government at work. It took over 100 years for VA to get horse racing back and only 15 years to lose it again. The VA General Assembly took 100 years. It was VA Horsemen leadership that took 15 years. Government is in the drivers seat again. Dear me. Wonder how many VA General Assembly members don’t care if they have to sit on a picnic basket to watch horse racing return? The way things are for me, if you are right, I can use a wheelchair.

For those interested here is a VRC link.

http://www.vrc.virginia.gov/agendasminutes.shtml

[Shammy_Davis]

Here is an Ocala, FL article that hits the nail on the head when it comes to the decline of horseracing nationally.

http://www.ocala.com/article/20141228/articles/141229763?p=1&tc=pg

Most recently, GA looked at horseracing and I know NC horsemen are eager. Like VA currently looking to MD, NC has been successful looking to DE.

I don’t know whether anyone has read THE HORSE TRADERS by Steven Crist published in 1986 and subtitled “Inside the billion dollar breeding industry that rules racing today” but it is a worthy read. Though the stories are outdated, it puts the decline of horseracing in some perspective. Particularly in VA TB history, when our resident horsemen, like Paul Mellon, Ray Guest, Stuart Janney, Chris Chenery, Penny Chenery, Ned Evans and his family, just to name a few that resided in VA they primarily supported KY racing and breeding along CA, FL, and NY racing. Sadly, when there leadership was needed, it was absent. I do have to say that Ray Guest eventually joined in with his support.

It really doesn’t matter what state you are breeding and racing in, as Steven Crist alludes, national racing is driven not at the tracks or betting windows but at the breeding farms. Once that infrastructure is gone the very foundation of a state industry crumbles. VA is certainly evidence of that. NC is an example of state that breeding industry is stagnant.

Some months ago I read an article where Leanne Hester was interviewed about the future of horseracing. I think it was in the Richmond Times. A breeder, racehorse trainer, and VTA board member she discussed the finanical loss of her operation and the expense of not having a place to race her horses nearby. Without Colonial she would have to travel a minimum of four hours at great expense to race her horses. No argument there from me. Well, under the VEA current planning, towing a horse trailer to any of the venues suggests Ms. Hester (who resides and trains in Gloucester on the Northern Neck) is still in the same boat. All of the VEA suggested facilities are around 4 hours away from her and only one really has the facilities to house horses, if they have space. What was even more perplexing to me about the article was that Ms. Hester was on the board of the VTA.

For COTH members interested in horseracing, if ever there was a time for a single national association, league if you will, it is now. The JC isn’t doing anything, the NTRA is off on its own with the BC, the tracks have single motives, profitable breeding state communities are not motivated to realign, and the cost of doing any equine related business is skyrocketing. The troubles in VA will not be unique in the near future as gambling and business pushes horsemen and women out.

My youngest daughter recently asked me, if I had any ideas about businesses she could pursue that would allow her to keep her deep emotional connection with TB’s. At the time, I couldn’t think of anything that was not labor intensive and would be profitable. Now, I think she could get into "selling picnic baskets and blankets, at VA horse races.:ambivalence:

[vineyridge]

Anyone here read David Dinks’s Boojam’s Bonanza blog?

He’s a numbers cruncher, and he’s been doing a three part series ranking breeding in most racing jurisdictions against each other and Kentucky. In the period that he studied, Virginia bred a total of 529 foals, had the highest percentage of stakes winners, the second highest quality of wins number after Kentucky, only it Kentucky and Canada produced above the average for all horses, and Virgina won that category by a mile. Virginia horses are also relative bargains.

So even if TB breeding in Virginia is declining, they are still producing on average the best horses in the US.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

http://www.northernvatimes.com/pdf/fauquier/2015/0722/index.html#p=1
http://www.northernvatimes.com/pdf/fauquier/2015/0722/index.html#p=9
Bottom left, front page news.

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8237568]
Anyone here read David Dinks’s Boojam’s Bonanza blog?

He’s a numbers cruncher, and he’s been doing a three part series ranking breeding in most racing jurisdictions against each other and Kentucky. In the period that he studied, Virginia bred a total of 529 foals, had the highest percentage of stakes winners, the second highest quality of wins number after Kentucky, only it Kentucky and Canada produced above the average for all horses, and Virgina won that category by a mile. Virginia horses are also relative bargains.

So even if TB breeding in Virginia is declining, they are still producing on average the best horses in the US.[/QUOTE]

This all sounds very encouraging, but from a practical perspective it only means that 99% VA TB mares are being sent out of state to be bred because there are no stallions of any worth standing in VA. Check the JC mares bred for the past five or so years and you’ll get my point. VA money is predominately going out of state supporting the likes of KY, WV, MD, PA, NY, et al. Ask yourself, where is the money made in the TB industry? Breeding.

VA breds maybe a bargain at the sales, but that is no bargain for the VA TB industry.

From a numbers standpoint, it appears that VA mare owners are making good decisions according this study. The shame is that it is bankrupting VA’s industry.

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=Hunter’s Rest;8239132]
http://www.northernvatimes.com/pdf/fauquier/2015/0722/index.html#p=1
http://www.northernvatimes.com/pdf/fauquier/2015/0722/index.html#p=9
Bottom left, front page news. :)[/QUOTE]

No one else is picking up the story. You’d expect the Warrenton area to get aroused. Nice article but nothing new. Can’t even figure if the September 12th Great Meadows meet is 2015 or 2016 and for how long. Just finished reading 158 pages of VRC’s July 1st transcript where it validated the VAHBPA. Didn’t see anything specific as to race dates in the transcript because it wasn’t discussed. They are still trying to figure out if MD hosting the graded stakes saves them for VA. Even Vice Commissioner Van Clief says it’s not a sure thing. Also it looks to me like it is still trying make sure the organizations that make up the VEA are doing what they are supposed to do. The vote was consistent to support the organizations, but the VRC is playing catch-up with legalize.

When the Washington Post and the Richmond Times prints something of significance, I’ll prick my ears. Sorry to rain on your parade, but like I said until the VRC says it is so, it ain’t.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

No one is invited to ‘pick up’ the story. I am a staffer for the Virginia News Group.
Everything I write and photograph is copyrighted. Other news agencies can’t just ‘pick up’ my work!
Sept. 20 means … Sept. 20.
‘Nothing new’???! It’s all new. And extremely exciting.

[Shammy_Davis]

[QUOTE=Hunter’s Rest;8240346]
No one is invited to ‘pick up’ the story. I am a staffer for the Virginia News Group.
Everything I write and photograph is copyrighted. Other news agencies can’t just ‘pick up’ my work!
Sept. 20 means … Sept. 20.
‘Nothing new’???! It’s all new. And extremely exciting.[/QUOTE]

With all due respect, you are too much. I was right. This is your “scoop.” You are a journalist among other varied advocations and your imagination has gotten the best of you.

No one is invited to pick up on the story? What are you on? You don’t have a clue about the business of horse racing, do you? Lord only knows if your information is even correct.

Sept 20th means Sept 20th? There have been so many in the past and there are so many to come. Let’s choose a year and you make it happen. Try some “ruby red slippers” and click your heels. I for one will look forward to some information from the VRC.

[Shammy_Davis]

Vineyridge: I read the complete blog last night. For anyone else interested here is the link.

https://ddink55.wordpress.com/

David Dink, himself, seems a little skeptical of the results. He does use the term “grain of salt” as a disclaimer. I must say, I’m very surprised at his numbers, but would add that VA has a few very active breeders who breed to many of the top sires in the nation. I read in the VTA news that the late Ned Evans was once again “Virginia’s breeder of the year.” Further the F-T sales in MD are normally well attended and the consignments are good quality.

The truth of the matter is that state industries that have complimentary and parallel programs (racing, breeding, & sales) are successful. When one is having difficulty, other segments of the industry support the whole. On the East coast, PA, MD, NY, and originally FL learned from the success in KY which has done it exceptionally well. I hate to put it this way, but like KY, each is allowed to be “self serving” and somewhat self supporting.

I just love David’s blogs. Previously his “mare importance” thoughts were very interesting.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

http://www.leesburgtoday.com/more_a/middleburg_life/flat-races-expected-for-great-meadow-sept/article_08a27646-3496-11e5-818a-27fd6426c473.html#.VbaYueV8QrQ.facebook

[Hunter_s_Rest]

http://www.northernvatimes.com/pdf/fauquier/2015/0805/index.html#p=18

[Hunter_s_Rest]

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/virginia-one-day-all-turf-flat-meet-sept-20/