Referring to the voided claim rule in California. Just curious what constitutes the track vets to void a claim.
Obvious unsoundness, bleeding, vanned off, etc
Can small amount of swelling or old injuries ( set bows, big ankles, etc) cause a claim to get overturned?
I am asking because we dropped a claim at Santa Anita today on a horse I really like. We won the shake and claim was voided 1 hour later back at the barn. Horse won the race, trotted back, looked great. No obvious bleeding. Walked back to the barn with no obvious unsoundness. I was surprised the claim got overturned.
It depends on the state, as racing is state regulated and rules will differ state to state.
http://www.chrb.ca.gov/rules_law.html#rule_book
I donāt have time to read it. Youāll have to ask your trainer why the claim was voided - he or she would have been told. Maybe there was an error in the claim slip, which happens.
A claim can also be voided for others things as silly/stupid as spelling mistakes, the trainer using their ānick nameā instead of their given name, name on their license. Incomplete information, horseās name spelled incorrectly One of more of the new owners listed not being eligible, trainer not eligible etc. California in general has a lot of ārulesā for racing and living.
What ever the reason IME the trainer/owner should be able to get an explanation. I donāt see how the claim can be voided without. Your trainer certainly should be able to get one. Or call the racing secretaries office and ask.
When you find out let us know. I am very curious, just in case we try and claim something in the future.
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This is why Iāve never been a big fan of the āvoided claimā rules other than for administrative issues or a failed drug test. I will say to the OP that sometimes a horse can look fine coming off the track but as they cool out something serious can start to show. I do think youāre owed an explanation by the stewards.
You can definitely demand an explanation but there is no way it was for soundness reasons as you would be the one who would have had to request that the claim be voided and your vet would have to back that up with physical evidence. It would have had to have been a license issue or funds or misspelling or something equally non horse related.
I had a horse claimed last year. The new owners took the horse out of a winning effort. She was returned the next day, as they did not have a current year licence. They took her again in two more starts. I took her back the one time she raced for them. She has rewarded me by winning twice in three starts, on a triple jump.
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The claim was voided for unsoundness and horse placed on vetās list, though he looked ok walking off the track. Something must have come up at the test barn. In California, we are not given the option to take them anyway unless this is declared prior to the race. Shame because he ran really well and had won his last 3. I will be curious to see where he shows up next.
The chart indicates that the vet voided the claim.
This is one of the reasons that I am not fond of the voided claim rule. If that horse was too unsound to be claimed, that horse should be ruled off for a significant period of time. Otherwise all they are doing is making a claim proof horse which is completely unfair to the connections of the other horses.
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In CA, if the horse is placed on the vetās list does that just mean a vet has to bless the horse racing again or is there a minimum mandatory time a horse has to stay on the list before coming off?
I also assume that just because the horse is on the CA vetās list that might not be discovered in another state (and horse could be raced and claimed)?
Section 1866 of the CA rules of racing linked above by Palm Beach
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Answer to your first question is yes. The same goes for a horse that is on the Stewards list. The āvetā will determine when it will be taken off. 1 week or 6 months. A horse on the Stewardās List has to demonstrate to the Stewards it has over come itās āissuesā before being allowed to race again. A Stewards list generally nothing to do with āsoundnessā. Bad in the gate, running, danger to other horses or the jockey etc.
The answer to your second question. No it doesnāt work that way at least not at any racetrack I know of and or would want to race at. Each track has its own āvets listā. All tracks honor another tracks. The information is readily available.
This is a link to the Vetās List in CA.as of 6/23/17
http://www.chrb.ca.gov/misc_docs/VetList.pdf
Check out the PPs on Jimmy Bouncerāhad claims voided by the vet on Feb 20, April 14 and May 11. He finished 6th, 2nd and 1st and earned almost $45,000 in his last two starts. Would have been a nice return for the person who dropped for him in April for $20,000 but couldnāt take him home.
I have no idea whatās wrong with the horse or why the vet keeps flunking him but he is essentially unclaimable.
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Kudos to the vets for at least trying. Iāve seen horses limp back to the winners circle and not get on the vets list. I understand the pros and cons, but Iām glad to see that there is an effort to protect the hard knocking claimers.
But as Prozini said earlier, if heās too unsound to be claimed, then why is he still running? And now winningā¦ but still unclaimable.
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Kind of absurd IMO.
I hate claiming race by and large. IMO they are a BS way of āleveling the fieldā. A lot of good horses are claimed. But IMO more ābadā horses are in the race hoping that they get claimed and become someone elseās expensive problem.
In the end the claiming game is pretty much the same as musical chairs. When the music stops everyone hopes they are not left hold the shank of a horse that just ran its last race. Or close to it. IMO its whole premise leaves the door open for nefarious practices. Which is not in a lot of horseās best interest. Nor the people betting on them.
Too lazy to read the CA rules. Seems to me even if the vet deems the horse unsound enough to void the claim. The decision to take the horse or not should be left up to the person who dropped the slip.
Generally we only try and claim potential broodmare prospects. So as long as they donāt finish with a major injury that will be expensive to address. We donāt care if they can run again in the near future.
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gumtree, thanks for your first reply and your second reply makes perfectly good sense to me. I get what a claiming race is but seems like, especially in the lower end claimers, youāre spot onā¦ who gets holding the bag in the event you just claimed a horse after, not known at the time, last race.
I do wonder at the higher end claimers like the $50K and up. Are those horses that the current owner/trainer do want to unload as they donāt fit the current racing program and the āclaimerā is, as you said, willing to take the breeding stock risk if the claimed horse doesnāt work out?
Many of the upper level claiming racing are AOC.
Probably an owner and trainer trying to get rid of them. The vet is supposed to watch them all jog back after the race, but watch how many canter back and halt at the groom.
Last time I went to the Breeders Cup, most of those horses had to walk for 45 minutes before jogging for the vet. But hey - thatās OK since their owners are rich. Everyone else with a hard knocking horse is practicing nefariously. And lately, remember Nyquist?? Heād make every resident of a nursing home look like an Olympian.
Orā¦they can run the horse a level or two below what he is and then he can win with impunity, helping the trainerās win percentage and making an unprofitable horse profitable.
Incidentally, the owner/trainer of Nyquist is the owner/trainer of Jimmy Bouncer.
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