Wagner cart vs. Frey Sprint questions

[CERT]

I am in the market for a new cart for my Fjord. I’ve been doing well enough with a draft sized forecart with a shorter set of shafts (my husband has a Belgian and Percheron we drive too). I’d like to do some showing and competitive driving, but forecarts aren’t exactly appropriate for those applications.

At the moment I’m looking between the Frey Sprint cart and the Wagner carts. There are things I like about both and I wondered if anyone here happened to have experience between the two of them and had opinions good or bad.

I like the Wagner multipurpose with its removable navigator step, compactability (can be dismantled and fit in a single trailer stall), adjustability, and the price point is slightly lower than the Frey if you go for the pure pleasure rather than the multipurpose, though I’m leaning towards the latter.

The Frey Sprint is nicely adjustable and the round pipe used throughout gives it a smoother finish than the Wagner’s square pipe body. It also has a solid floor rather than mesh on the Wagner and it reminds me of the Pacific Carriages (did Frey take over Pacific?), which I have had some first hand experience with through other people. It, to my knowledge, doesn’t have a navigator step option, though I could add a wedge seat or marathon-style shafts. The Frey Sprint looks slightly thicker in construction than the Wagner, but it’s hard to tell without having them side by side.

I’ve nosed through the current ADS rulebook and can’t find anything that says the groom/navigator has to be behind after a certain level (everything has said behind or beside), though I have seen people commenting that the gator has to be behind. Anyone know for sure?

My other consideration is that in addition to my 14.2hh Fjord (who is basically a small draft on nubby legs) I have a two year-old HaflingerxBelgian I am bringing along and hope to drive (we’re just ground driving and introducing the harness, idea of pushing into the breastcollar and breeching, and noisy things around her) in the next year. The cross is 15.1hh already and hoping she stops around 15.2, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she made it to 15.3. Ideally I’d like the cart to be functional for both. My brain says since the forecart works between 14.2 and the 16.3 hands of my husband’s Belgian with a second set of shafts getting one of these carts to work for the four or five inches between the Fjord and young cross when she finishes shouldn’t be so hard, right?

Thanks for any thoughts!

[twadwis]

I’m not familier with the Wagner carts but I do have a Frey horse size Sprint that I like. Frey carts are made in Wisconsin and I have been to the shop several times. No shortcuts on anything, meticulous about everything. They do beautiful restorations as well, check out the website.

[CERT]

I wish I lived closer to any cart manufacturers… Arizona is a desert in more than one sense!

I have been on their website and am waiting to hear back on an email with some questions I had for them. They are a beautiful cart. It looks like they have shock springs under the seats instead of leaf springs on the axle. Do you find that the ride is still pretty nice? I’m more familiar with the feel of leaf springs.

Thanks!

[redpanther]

Maybe you can ask either manufacturers if they have any customers that live near you so you can see the cart in person.

Have you reached out to any of the local driving clubs to see if you can check out any of their carts?

[CERT]

I am a member of my driving club and I have yet to see these two brands around in my area. You have some of the inexpensive easy entry carts, the old Pacific Carriages, Eazy Ryders, which I believe are defunct, some Polish vehicles (actually thinking on a Kutzmann too, but would kindof like to not import something) meadowbrooks, show/road carts and the like, along with the four-wheeled carriages. Contacting the manufacturer might be a good route, though being in state doesn’t always equate with close! Plus they might be reluctant to say “contact so-and-so” for customer privacy reasons. Thanks for the thoughts.

[twadwis]

You should be able to see the Frey carts by looking at some photo albums of the Villa Louie and Columbus Wisconsin carriage shows. Often the novice classes will have a couple.

[fjordie03]

I have a Frey sprint and I learned to drive using Pacifics (a cob sized smart cart put to various haflingers and 2 wagonettes) but I’m not familiar with the Wagner.

Regarding how to get one cart that fits both your tall horse and your fjord: I had 3 fjords until last winter, two were 14.1 and one was 14.3 and of them 2 were drafty and the other medium build. So I ordered a horse sized sprint cart with 40" diameter wheels because I prefer to be up high and that cob sized Pacific smart cart was too low for my tastes when my fjord was put to it during training. I can easily see a horse up to 15.1 fitting the horse sized sprint.

I’ve struggled to get the balance right with the Sprint because the shafts come with curve in them (for adjustability of width) but I’ve found that when they are set to the correct width on my fjords, none of my harnesses have shaft loops that are high enough. After cobbling three harnesses together, I’ve managed to get it to work, but that’s pretty typical of fitting harness to fjords anyway. That’s my one complaint - I wish they had copied the Pacific and made the shafts adjustable back at the cart and left the shafts straight. Of course, I am sure I could contact them and buy straight shafts but I have not yet due to budget.

But the Sprint is adjustable in other ways: the seat adjusts a few inches, the whole body of the cart has 5 holes which moves it forward or back, and the height of the spring which I have not fooled with. I spent 15 minutes today adjusting my cart back 2 inches to move the balance back - and I found it easy to do it myself using a few hand tools. There weren’t any real instructions for this when the cart arrived (brand new). Frey should have a Care and Instruction manual that goes with their carts IMHO.

[acepal]

I drive my Haflinger to a Wagner cart - the pure pleasure model - and I couldn’t be more pleased with it. I don’t really see much to compare the Frey Sprint with the Wagner cart. The Wagner is a custom vehicle - made by hand in rural Ohio, one at a time (mine is deep green, still beautiful after almost 10 years) - and the Frey is from a commercial builder. The Wagner construction allows for easy balancing to reduce weight on the shafts and I have a room for a “spares” basket mounted on the back frame. The Frey feels less stable to me, maybe because the seat - with no rear frame - is just balanced over…hum, well…over air. Make sure you check the standard construction features of the Wagner vs the Frey. Strength of square vs round steel tubing is well documented on many science and engineering sites so I won’t belabour that point except to say go square. We drive on both rough trails and on pavement with no trouble. My cart is STURDY yet so well balanced it’s easy for one person (63 year old me!) to move in and out of the cart house - which requires negotiating a ramp. I easily fit my horse and my Wagner cart (dismantled) into my trailer for hauling to local drive sites, so easy to dismantle and re-mantle, even I can do it. With the Wagner you also have the cool option of a pole for team driving, the only thing more fun than one Haflinger and a Wagner cart is TWO Haflingers and a Wagner cart. I don’t think you’ll have any trouble with the height difference between your fiord and the Haffy cross, but the Wagners (who breed Haflingers, by the way) can tell you for sure. I’ve done “show and tell” to potential buyers with my Wagner cart several times, I bet the Wagners could steer you to a Wagner owner close to you who would do the same.

[oldestgreymare]

Hello! We have used Wagner Carts for many years, primarily on our Haflingers who have ranged in size from 13.3 t0 15.1 hands. We have used them in CDE’s through prelim level, although we switched to a 4 wheel marathon vehicle as we became more competitive. They are perfect for pleasure driving, distance driving, trail driving and training. We have used them hard, and they have stood the test of time. I currently condition and school dressage in one, with my 14hand Arab cross. The carts are very adjustable and will fit a range of sizes.

[bkhr]

We have owned our Wagner Pleasure cart for about 10 years and it remains a great cart in all ways. We bought a driving horse a 15 h Halfinger and needed a safe vehicle. As we were new to driving and in our 60’s it needed to be easy to get into, well built, and easy to service. We chose the Wagner on the advice of our trainer. The tubing on the other carts that we looked at didn’t appear to be as substantial as the square construction on the Wagner. I am not an engineer but angles are stronger than tubing of the same gage. We do not know a thing about the Frey cart but it would be hard to beat the Wagner. We have done CDE’s at the training level, driven our pasture, and all through all types of terrain. We primary are pleasure drivers with our club and we have never had a problem and always felt safe and comfortable. We used to load it in the back of our pickup truck when we had a bumper pull trailer and now we take it up our side ramp removing the shafts which is easy to do as all bolts are the same size. The ease of getting in with the step which also servers as a brush guard and comfort of the seat, the built in self contained stand, the balance and ease of adjustment make it a winner in our book. The customer service that you receive from Al and Brandy can’t be beat.

[CERT]

Thank you Fjordie03, Acepal, Oldestgreymare, and bkhr for sharing your experiences!

Fjords definitely have a unique body shape with their large bodies and nubby legs! Kitt has the body mass of your average 17 hand warmblood at 14.2 hands.

The tubular definitely has more eye appeal, but I wasn’t aware of the strength difference between it and the square.

The pole option was another neat feature with the Wagner cart. We have a forecart with both a pole and set of shafts. I can imagine how fun it’d be driving a little sportier cart with a team too! Not an option you often see!

I spent some time talking with one of the owners about options and getting the sizing right between the two horses with the Wagner. It was also interesting to hear about how they developed the design. I’m glad to hear how well they’ve held up over time. They sound nice and solid.

I may end up going with a third option as we have been looking at a Kutzman carriage for our drafts too (16 and 16.3hh) and we save on shipping getting both the carriage and the cart at once.

I appreciate you all sharing your insights! From your experiences and having communicated with the manufacturers it seems like both are pretty nice well-made carts, each with their own strengths. Thanks again!