Wait a Minute..Why Don't We Get Prize Money?

[SailAway]

Hi hi, longtime lurker here

I grew up eventing, but in Pony Club, the…ah…budget friendly variety. Everyone in my club rode horses that were lesson school dropouts, half lame, or completely without breaks (myself included) and my competition experience was mostly regional or smaller shows.

Now as an adult, I’m getting back into riding after a several year hiatus. I spent 6 months at a reining barn (SO cool, very much like Western dressage) and then ended up at a show jumping barn with a Grand Prix rider, mostly because there aren’t many eventing options in my area. I’ve been learning SO much from her, but one of the things that has become very obvious to me is the disparity in show expenses and prize money.

I showed at a few local reining shows, and was shocked when my show fees were CHEAP compared to eventing, and my winnings included a check. It made me remember wayyy back when when I showed Saddlebreds and often won prize money. Then, talking to my SJ trainer, that’s commonplace in her discipline, too. It got me to wondering: why don’t eventers earn prize money at their shows (or, at least, not the events I’ve been to)? Is there really such a huge difference in funding from discipline to discipline?

This could be a “duh” answer, or maybe not, but I’m curious on everyone’s thoughts!

[devvie_continued]

My understanding is that it’s because xc (not to mention having three phases) is just a lot more expensive than reining, or say, than barrel racing (which around here has amazing prize money), where what you need is a ring and three barrels, more or less. Compare that to needing xc design, jumps, land, and then the two other phases that also require multiple judges, etc. etc. Plus the sport takes longer, so not the same number of entries as other sports.

[Cowboy_Girl]

In eventing all the entry money goes to covering expenses - multiple courses, multiple judges, multiple days, insurance and national fees. Then the volunteers make it run. And often due all the painting and beautification work. A great big event in my area has 200 entrants over 3 days. Sponsors donate beautification/jump money or small gift to winners.

Most stock horse events take place in a single arena (that venue takes care of maintenance and beautification as part of its doing business and carries insurance.) Entry fees cover the judges and cattle fees and the rest can be prize money. A local Thursday night team roping jackpot/ barrel race can draw 200 runs between 4 and 10pm. Sponsors donate saddles and trailers to winners.

[MadTrotter]

I think it’s also cultural, dressage doesn’t have prize money, at least at lower levels, maybe at the big venues, either. And it’s nothing like big reining or show jumping money. The message is, you do this for love of the craft, to improve against yourself and not to compete against others.

I think it’s also related to whether the sport tends to be treated like a spectator sport, in which prize money drives up the drama and narrative. Also spectators will bring in revenue from media or onsite purchases.

It’s purely personal, but I prefer it this way. Unless you’re at the very tip top of the sport, let’s be honest, why care about a check that miiiiight cover gas on the way home?

[house]

I think it basically goes into 2 categories, either everyone pays in enough money into the pot, and the winner takes part of the purse, which is normally pretty obvious, or the Venue is hoping to make money with the show.

I show draft horses and most of the venues are trying to sell tickets to get people in the door, to do this they need exhibitors. Most of the growing draft horse shows are paying travel money, plus a small bonus to the top 8 or so competitors. This does 2 things, it helps exhibitors budget, and the venue has a guaranteed show for the audience, that said classes that are not particularly useful for attracting spectators, like halter, are on the decline.

[Xanthoria]

Phhhttt! If British Eventing can do it, we can!

Prize Money

There’s even a handy calculator to show how much you win. Even down at 80cm. And the entry fees are much lower! https://www.eventingscores.co.uk/be_prize_money.php

Unaffiliated events in the UK apparently pay out even more.

[Libby2563]

A recent event near me had an optional Jackpot division at each level in which competitors could choose to pay $50 more for the chance to win some back. Only 3 of the 36 Training entries were in the Jackpot division, and that was after the organizers sent an email soliciting more Jackpot entries a couple weeks before the event because there was only one! I wasn’t interested in the gamble of paying more for my entry for the chance to win some money back (though as it turns out I would have come second in that division), and it seems like others aren’t either.

[Xanthoria]

Yeah I think when it’s presented that way it’s hard to see the value but I hope the organizers didn’t come away thinking people don’t want prize money.

[trubandloki]

@Xanthoria

Yeah I think when it’s presented that way it’s hard to see the value but I hope the organizers didn’t come away thinking people don’t want prize money.

I would think that the organizers very much should take away from that experience that people in their area do not want to pay extra for prize money and unless you (general event organizer) suddenly get a sponsor who wants to pay the prize money there is no other way to get prize money.

[Xanthoria]

I think there’s more to it. Ask competitors “Do people want to PAY EXTRA for prize money?” and 95% will say no.

In the case cited, the competition was set up almost as “do competitors want to pay their OWN prize money?” which is almost less appealing.

The reality is for people interested in prize money they’re trying to offset the cost of competing so paying more isn’t going to be interesting unless they feel certain they can win. And how many rides in eventing are a shoo in?

It’s all in the semantics (marketing) A better way might have been to up the entry fees by a small amount across the board (or find another area in the profits that can be adjusted and reapportioned) then frame it as a prize money division with the small print caveat that it will be canceled with fewer entrants. Get some sponsor prizes to make it all the more appealing and watch it take off (hopefully!)

If it gets lots of attention(pre and post event marketing) hopefully it becomes a much wanted division like the prelim challenges at Woodside and people are happy to pay more to participate - sponsor and rider alike.

[trubandloki]

@Xanthoria

find another area in the profits

From what I understand from reading about running an event here and as a volunteer at one, there are not profits to reassign.

[Xanthoria]

I hear that too, but there must be profits at some events. There just have to be otherwise nobody would do it - there aren’t enough volunteers in the world to make some of this work worth it. (event organizers don’t share their financials but I expect we’ll be inundated with them saying they make nothing at all now)

And even if it’s a break even endeavor, and perhaps intended to be, there are areas where money can be saved which can add up to a prize fund, or part of one. One fewer $5 bunch of flowers on each of 50 jumps: $250. Selling bales of shavings for $0.50 more, with 300 horses getting 5 bales each is $750. I am sure there are lots of other ways to spread the cost in a way that doesn’t impact competitors or even actively turns them off in the way that “pay your own prize money” messaging does. Heck even adding $5 to the entry for an event of 300 horses gives $1500 extra.

I’d be so curious to see the numbers TBH - if UK competitions can charge so much less to enter and still give great prize money, why is that?

Just guessing, but I suspect in the US there’s zero incentive to event organizers to offer small amounts of prize money - at least in my area. People who can afford to spend at least $1000 for a weekend of eventing 7-10x a year per horse don’t care about winning a hundred bucks so create zero demand. The Prelim challenge though gave $15,000 in prize money and an additional $15,000 in prizes. That created massive demand, the entry fee was higher, and it was full. But you have to build up to that.

[Herefordgirl2022]

Recognized Horse Trials are lucky to break even. We have to pay dressage judges, stadium judge, stadium course designer, XC course designer, XC course builder and their team, Technical Delegate, President of Ground Jury, farrier, vet, USEA, location of event, hotels for all of the mentioned, gas money, etc. The list is endless. This is why smaller recognized events are folding. It is almost impossible to make money unless you hold unrecognized events, jumper shows, combined tests etc. If Jacquelyn Mars and other donors didn’t exist, I think eventing would be doomed. I heard one big organizer say to someone “When I make money then I will award prize money” This is from a 4* event!
I wonder if Great Britain doesn’t have as many rules and regulations so that is why they are able to award prize money because they are paying so many officials. I will check into that. I have a friend that competes at the 3* and 4* level over there.

[Mander]

@house

I think it basically goes into 2 categories, either everyone pays in enough money into the pot, and the winner takes part of the purse, which is normally pretty obvious, or the Venue is hoping to make money with the show.

Back when I used to help out with contesting shows put on by the local 4h club (barrels/pole bending/keyhole/etc), the money was never made by the office, but rather the concession stand. The woman who organized the concessions would get people to donate a lot of the food (a big bag of cheese, pack of hotdogs, 2lbs ground beef, box of hot cocoa packets, etc.) and would buy the rest from Sams club and still manage to make 1-2k selling $3 “walking tacos” during a 3-day show.

[Xanthoria]

@Herefordgirl2022

Recognized Horse Trials are lucky to break even. We have to pay dressage judges, stadium judge, stadium course designer, XC course designer, XC course builder and their team, Technical Delegate, President of Ground Jury, farrier, vet, USEA, location of event, hotels for all of the mentioned, gas money, etc. The list is endless. This is why smaller recognized events are folding.

More and more it seems like there is a great case for unrecognized events so people can make money, offer prize money, and create competition for USEF

[trubandloki]

@Xanthoria

One fewer $5 bunch of flowers

I know nothing about other events, but the event I volunteer at, the flowers are donated. The nursery gets a big sign that says they are donated.

This horse trial also does not sell shavings.

And I realize these were just your two examples and there might be other places. I am simply pointing out that though you want to make this simple, it is not that simple.

I agree with @Mander, if money is made, it is made elsewhere.

[Training_Cupid]

Do you want to pay higher entry fees to subsidize the top finishers?

[Gardenhorse]

I know of several events that give discounts off entry fees to their next event as prizes. It’s like prize money but you can only spend it one place.