Walk to canter, won't trot: not lame but not happy?

[blacksheep]

Anyone dealt with this before? Possibly from extensor tendon adhesions? May I pick your brain with my cluster of symptoms?

Waiting for the vet to book us in (again) and I’m going through my checklist of potential causes: SI, suspensory, back pain, ulcers, adhesions from her old injury, more than one of the above?
My mare has been slightly grumpier in her stall and I watched her lay down yesterday to roll in fresh shavings and jump up and buck like she’d been stung. She’s also bucked oddly a few times now out of stall by rounding her back and kicking almost underneath herself rather than legs in the air as usual (though she showed yesterday she can still do that fine, and that’s well within her usual character).

I brought her to the vet a couple weeks ago and he thought the discomfort under saddle may have been due to adhesions at her hind extensor tendon from an old trauma. She was never lame through any of it and isn’t lame now, but reacts to pressure on the scar and can be defensive lifting that leg for the farrier.

I’ve brought her back into work extremely slowly over a period of ten months and now wonder if there’s been an underlying issue from her accident (in which she bucked on the walker, caught her leg over a gate, and hung until someone could push her over ). I also unfortunately flat schooled her in heavier footing a few weeks ago (thought I was careful enough with only about five minutes combined of trot/canter and walking otherwise… ) and that seems to have emphasized it. Still no swelling, heat, or lameness, and walks out of the stable fine in the morning. I have felt throughout her rehab an occasional bit of stickiness or stiffness behind but only sporadically. That seemed to me like weakness to work through (based on vet) and this feels like a greatly magnified version?

Has anyone any experience with adhesions? My vet suggested they can be more painful than the original injury and that the softer footing may have aggravated them. Google is not yielding much for me on extensor tendons. She also used to cast herself like it was her job (no recent evidence), so she has had one SI injected a couple years ago and I wonder if that could be part of the problem?

[RedHorses]

I’m thinking it’s more likely to be SI/lumbar area. Trot is a diagonal gait and the pelvis rotates horizontally quickly around a stable spine. In the canter the hips move together (offset) swinging vertically on the hinge of the lower spine. Different motions.

In my experience extensor tendon adhesions produced an uneven, mildly lame trot rather than a refusal to take the gait. Once they broke loose the sound trot returned.

[mmeqcenter]

I knew a horse that did not want to trot, instead would canter especially after flexion, diagnosed with hock issues. Vet thought soft tissue higher up in the hindquarters but it was arthritis in the hocks.

[No1]

Agree with both of the other posters. Sounds like back or hocks.

Also, if it were an extensor tendon issue, I’m not sure why it would not be at least occasionally evident in another gait? Extensor tendons are active anytime the fetlock is extending.

[JB]

What exactly does “walk to canter, won’t trot” mean?

Are you asking her to trot, and then canter out of the trot?

Does she willingly and correctly canter out of a walk? As in, she doesn’t pull herself into it by heaving her front end up first?

[Renn_aissance]

@RedHorses

I’m thinking it’s more likely to be SI/lumbar area. Trot is a diagonal gait and the pelvis rotates horizontally quickly around a stable spine. In the canter the hips move together (offset) swinging vertically on the hinge of the lower spine. Different motions.

That was my reaction also. Canter is an easier gait for horses with SI issues and they may prefer to avoid trotting. That could be orthopedic or soft tissue and it’s plausible they originated with the same injury (yikes!) but have either been masked by the extensor tendon problem, or have simply not been visible due to the way she’s been moving- or not- during rehab.

[blacksheep]

Yes, my mistake, that was unclear. I’m asking her to trot from walk, both under saddle and from the ground. This has never been an issue in our rides (and certainly not in hand) so it’s not a communication error. She has heaved forward on more than one occasion. She will trot after cantering several steps but I haven’t forced because there’s clearly something painful.

It feels to me as well like something in SI/lumbar, particularly after seeing her leap up from rolling in her stall. I am not sure how hanging with a leg up for so long wouldn’t have caused an issue in an area that had already needed treatment, honestly. I was so gradual in rehabbing her and had yet to do much canter and no jump work, so I wonder if it was a matter of time. Unless I am really an idiot (yes) for doing anything even briefly with her in less than perfect footing.

[blacksheep]

I think she has always felt somewhat fragile since the accident but never took a lame step and neither gen practice nor orthopedic vet saw cause for concern and cleared her for ridden work. I took about three times as long bringing her back as recommended and have always backed off if I felt we got to a point where something seemed like we were pushing it, so I suppose it’s feasible I masked it for her. She has several times seemed stiff in that leg for a step or two if she got more than one day off in a row, but it felt less like an extension issue than trouble keeping it underneath herself on the very gradual slope into our arena or when asking her to step under on a circle.

[JB]

Given the new description (thanks!) I agree it’s higher in the hind end than the extensor, which isn’t a weight-bearing tendon. And IMHO it’s likely in the stifle or the SI area, probably not the hocks since sore hocks tend to make cantering worse, not trotting

[Renn_aissance]

Your additional description sounds like SI discomfort to me.

My fellow has an old SI “thing” that co-occurred with a front suspensory and front pedal osteitis- not sure which of those was the chicken vs the egg, but excellent farriery, chiropractic work, massage, and a vet-prescribed course of rehab for all of those issues brought him back to his previous career. The one difference is that since then, about 10 years ago, when warming up, we go from walk to canter and lope a lap of the ring before trotting. He’s more comfortable that way. I do have to be mindful of his muscular fitness to support that area of the body. Since the provenance of my horse’s SI discomfort was unknown and at the time there weren’t phenomenal imaging options, it was diagnosed on the basis of his posture (asymmetrical) and way of going (reluctance to trot, avoidance of straightness in walk and canter) and ruling out anything else being awry with his back end.

[blacksheep]

Thank you for sharing!! This makes the most sense to me with my mare and it’s been super helpful to read about your experience. She is one of the most athletic horses I’ve ever owned, but seems to have a death wish and never considers where her body is in relation to stable walls.

She’s always had a slight asymmetry in her posture, likely due to casting herself several times before I bought her (found out after purchase, of course!). She loves a wander off a straight line, has a huge but “lazy” trot, and will occasionally zoom forward a few strides at the canter. She’s a super expressive horse and these have always seemed like part of her personality, but geeze, it’s pretty obvious on paper, isn’t it?

I am sure the time since her last SI injection, her awful accident, rehabbing through physical weakness, and finally, a testing surface have all driven whatever is going on in there through the roof.

[IPEsq]

In my experience (too much of it in fact), horses with SI and back injuries do not like to canter (and will have a propensity for bucking), although cantering can help get those areas loosened up and potentially feeling better if it’s more soft tissue thing. I think of more hock area things when I think of more difficulty trotting than cantering. But with her accident, she could certainly have done a number of things other than the leg wound.

[blacksheep]

That’s good to know. She certainly was not as happy to canter and relatively normal at trot before I brought her in to get her SI injected the first time, so that keeps with our prior experience. She has been bucking quite a lot without being fresh these couple weeks, and in a different manner than usual. We’ve never had hock problems before, but she’s just come 9 and off of a year of accident, stall rest, and rehab after quite a lot of higher level jumping, so it wouldn’t be shocking if something has come up. I will certainly be glad (as glad as one can be, under the circumstances ) to find out what’s going on with her.

[No1]

Unwillingness to canter, inability to hold the correct lead, ‘trantering’ and/or ‘bunny hopping’ are all signs of stifle or SI discomfort. An unwillingness to trot and a comfortable canter makes me think more hocks,

[Against_All_Odds2]

My horse trantered with sore front feet

[blacksheep]

So, a somewhat fruitless update: My mare spent the day at the vet’s practice. He couldn’t find anything on a circle, a straight, back on a circle, hard ground, soft ground, in flexion, or in palpation of back. Naturally she was happy to trot for him after two days off work, too, so he’s not sure it isn’t behavioral. I’m fairly certain it’s not. She also got an all clear after a full reproductive exam, so no tumors or any abnormalities there. Hocks looked fine and he didn’t check fetlocks or stifles. Didn’t ultrasound either as felt no need. I’m less convinced as just about every soft tissue injury I’ve ever dealt with has failed to turn up in clinical/flexion.

He’s of the opinion that we should either treat her SI’s as she responded well to that previously, so why not, or try a bute trial and see if her behavior improves-- or have a bone scan done on her back/pelvis to see if there’s any loss of density after her accident.

I’ll probably start with the bute but am considering taking her to another orthopedic vet. Not sure I’m eager to jump into a bone scan (or speculative joint injecting. yet) though I would welcome hearing about any experience any of you might have had doing one

[IPEsq]

If you do decide to go with a bone scan, do the whole horse. I mean, the reason you are doing it is because you don’t have a clear idea of where/what. Friend of mine had some sore back issues and behavioral issues, did back/pelvis. Did find something with a hip. Treating that helped some, but the behavior continued to escalate. Turns out horse had a major neck issue, which might have showed up on the bone scan if they had looked at the neck at that time. It takes all day and is $$$ anyway, so why not?

With one of mine, we skipped front feet with the bone scan not because it wouldn’t have been helpful (might have been very useful actually), but because he kept pawing at the gamma camera, and I didn’t really feel like being the proud owner of a $$$$ piece of broken equipment. So, absent a patient compliance type issue, just do the whole horse if it comes to that.

But yes, starting with an orthopedic/sports med specialist would be a very reasonable next step.

[atr]

Have you checked front suspensories? From personal experience, that’s where I would start.

[blacksheep]

Thank you, that’s a good thought. I had such a nightmare with my new arena and lunge footing last year that I’ve unfortunately had a great deal of recent experience with front suspensories. This mare was out of work so thankfully missed that period. It’s the first worry I always have now when something feels not quite right. Think I have residual trauma He didn’t ultrasound her suspensories or see anything in the exam/clinical to indicate an issue. I’d be a little more cynical since none of mine last year ever presented anything until ultrasound. She hasn’t shown me any of the signs the others had-- no rocking horse stance in the stable, never walks out short after a night in, nothing tentative up front on a circle/corner, and feels very differently resistant under saddle. But I did ride her in heavy footing the day before this escalated, so as much as I wish not, it’s certainly worth a closer look.

[blacksheep]

My patient would love to practice noncompliance! I often wear a helmet around her as after I sustained a concussion a couple years ago, she took up the habit of giving me little bops on the head with her teeth. She also bangs the stable door when my husband and I speak to each other too long and enjoys raking her teeth across anything expensive. She’s very special

I will absolutely take your advice if I decide to go with a bone scan after the next visit. That makes total sense. Thank you!