Walking in front of face triggers (possible?) pain reaction

[not_quite_right]

Looking for anyone who’s dealt with something similar. I can’t find any relevant information online, but it’s truly bizarre to me.

My horse is a 16yo AQHA gelding, 16.1h. I’ve had him for 8y. He’s an absolutely lovely, in-your-pocket type who is generally easy to handle on the ground and beautifully trained under saddle. We play around with western pleasure-type events, basic dressage, and H/J up to about 2’3. He has a history of severe arthritis and allergies going back to when I bought him. Generally he is an absolute delight with the caveats of: being not very sound and quite sensitive and spooky.

About 9 months ago he started developing photic headshaking symptoms, roughly at the same time as he developed severe stiffness to the neck on one side. Vet DX’d headshaking and imaged spine, finding the following: “Radiology report of cervical spine notes C4-C5 (mild), C5-C6 (mild-moderate), C6-C7 (moderate) osteoarthropathy and C6-C7 intervertebral foraminal stenosis vs superimposition of the enlarged articular process joint.” Injections resolved the spine issue, and the headshaking stuff has been fairly manageable with fly masks and riding at night. If we ride in broad daylight he’ll toss his head intermittently for a few minutes before settling down into work.

Also starting about 9 months ago, he started developing bizarre behavioral responses to me crossing in front of his head, where it had never been an issue before. If you try to cross over, he follows you to keep you on one side of his head. If you try to force the issue and he has the space, he’ll start trotting around you. He has occasionally lightened in front if you really push him to stay put while you cross over, and always looks very uncomfortable, tense, and frozen. Once you do cross, he kind of twitches and licks and chews. To me, it seems to be quite a clear pain response.

Most of the time I’m able to avoid the issue entirely, but the workarounds aren’t always the safest. i.e. ground tying him and going around his hind end every time I need to tighten the girth, put stirrups down, etc. If he follows me through a narrow space he can get quite anxious and occasionally rush through my space, which is obviously unsafe behavior, though there have never been any close calls. However, something is clearly not right and I want to figure this out if possible.

It’s not absolutely consistent, and maybe presents at some point 70% of the times I handle him. It presents crossing from one side to another in the front, but not if you go around the back. The side from which you start doesn’t seem to matter. He’s fine once you’re on the other side. It doesn’t present if you try to switch him from one side to another at a distance, like on a lunge line, but it does present significantly when I try to do groundwork on a 10ft rope. It never presents under saddle. It occasionally presents if you try to swing something around his head (i.e. put english reins over his head, and they cross his field of vision). Otherwise, he is generally not headshy. Similar behavior presents if you try to press between his nostrils, though he’s fine being touched around his forehead.

I thought it might be vision, but the vet’s vision exam came back asymptomatic. I personally doubt it’s behavioral/disobedience since it’s such a specific thing, had never been an issue before, and also since he’s generally an extremely compliant, good-tempered, and well-trained horse, but of course I may have a blind spot where he’s concerned. I don’t know if this kind of thing may be linked to headshaking, but it presents at all times of the day, so it doesn’t seem to be triggered by daylight. It’s continued while the cervical spine stiffness has resolved, so those don’t appear to be linked.

I’m curious whether anyone else has dealt with anything similar, or has any ideas of how to approach diagnosing and managing a horse with these symptoms. I have the vets coming out again, but I’d love more ideas for things to research, look out for, test, and potentially get video of in case the behavior doesn’t present during a vet exam.

[Simkie]

Has he been examined by an equine opthalmologist? Eyeballs are a specialty thing. A generalist vet doesn’t have a very deep toolbox to evaluate eye stuff.

I would absolutely prioritize getting a specialist appointment, as well as a comprehensive neuro exam.

Any chance he’s grey? Melanoma can develop inside the eyeball, which is very distressing for them.

[not_quite_right]

Thank you very much for your kind response! He has not had a specialty eye appointment. That’s definitely on the list, but not a route I’d wanted to go down the rabbit hole on unless there was a clear indication, since it would likely involve shipping him off-property and would in general be a hassle.

For neuro, anything specific that you’d want to look out for? He’s gotten a couple neuro exams within the last year for the cervical spine stuff, and he had some forelimb awkwardness that resolved with the injections, and no other clinical signs.

No, he’s a solid chestnut w/ brown eyes. I can imagine that would be terrifying for them.

[Simkie]

Yeah, unfortunately the opthalmologists are usually a specialist you’ve got to ship out to. I’d say you’ve got cause for that with how upset your horse is about his vision

I would be just looking for any new abnormality in a neuro exam. Neck stuff is often a game of whack a mole and treatment “success” can be pretty fleeting. Something like EPM may also contribute to what you’re seeing.

I have a (also sensitive, red) gelding who doesn’t like me on one side when something is wrong. He had a very short threshold of “okay” and when he is not okay, one way his anxiety shows is he wants to keep me in one eye. He has never been nearly as extreme about it as you describe, but when it pops up, I know there’s something wrong in his body. Even if he looks sound, something is amiss.

A few medication trials may help narrow things down. A solid run of Tylenol may help rule in pain. Gabapentin may help rule in neuro pain. Robaxin may help rule in something muscular. I wouldn’t call lack of success with any of those a rule OUT, but success with any of them could help give you a direction to start looking.

Best of luck. You’re 100% spot on to treat this as a symptom of something, rather than just him being a dweeb. It can be a tough puzzle to pick apart, though!

[Night_Flight]

It sounds like it presents every time he feels like he might have to shorten his neck to make room for something in front? How is he generally if you ask him to shorten in the neck?

[not_quite_right]

Thanks again very much for this thoughtful response. It does seem like shipping him out is something I’ll have to steel myself for, lol. Fortunately there’s a great equine hospital in the area, so shouldn’t be too horrific.

The neuro / neck stuff is definitely a whole thing, and I anticipate (hopefully) a years-long, quite expensive whack-a-mole until he retires. I appreciate the EPM rec, I’ll ask the vets about it when they’re out.

For your boy, have you been able to pinpoint the root of the one-eye behavior? You mentioned pain, so I’d be quite curious to know if you were able to determine the source.

Love the idea of trialing the meds to rule in different options there. Often that’s cheaper and more straightforward than doing a billion tests. Thanks very much for the ideas, I’ll be sure to run them by the vets.

And lastly thanks for the well wishes, and for the sanity check on whether I’m reading into it too much, or he’s just being a bit of a dick. Definitely a tough puzzle. Hopefully I’ll be able to figure it out and leave a breadcrumb trail for the next person who is in a similar position.

[not_quite_right]

This is a great question! I hadn’t considered this but it seems entirely plausible that it’s connected to his neck issues. Under saddle he’ll happily mosey in a long-and-low, stretchy-circle type frame if I let him choose, but he’s willing to come into a shorter, hunter-type frame if I pick up the reins with no resistance. Generally on the ground I’m passing in front of him by a couple feet, and just asking him to stay still, but it’s entirely possible he thinks he has to shorten his neck. He’s also happy to shorten his neck on the ground for in-hand work (leg yields, rein-backs) and doesn’t display any of these behaviors. Thank you very much for the ideas, and I’d truly appreciate any additional thoughts or recommendations you have for troubleshooting

[Ottbaxel]

My 18 year old gelding has arthritis in his C5/C6/C7 spaces that he has received injections for previously (without much improvement noted).

A couple of summers ago, he started headshaking really bad. We injected the neck again with no results, and tried allergy medicine (cyproheptadine) as well as a nose net. He also got very very spooky, and he still gets spooky now and again. For him, it’s anything that can flap in the breeze. He started breaking crossties frequently when he saw show ribbons, trash bags, his ziplock supplement bags, when I threw a saddle pad onto his back once, leaves blowing etc. he still every once in a while will spook at this stuff on the crossties despite being really generally not a spooky horse at all. I have never figured out what it is but it did seem related to the headshakers-so please update us if you find out!!

What I will say about the headshakers-I have had major success with Magnesium 5000 and only Magnesium 5000. It’s the only thing I’ve found that completely curbs the headshakers-seriously, the only time it has ever come back is when he ran out of Mag 5000, and when I tried to switch to Quiessence. Before I put him on it his headshakers was really bad, he was essentially unrideable. Every horse is different but worth a try if you haven’t yet!

[not_quite_right]

Hi, thanks so much for jumping in

Has anything ever worked to help with the neck arthritis, or have you just been working around it, if that makes sense?

It’s so interesting that the headshaking may be correlated with spookiness for your horse – I’m curious whether his trigger is photic or wind, if that makes sense? I’ve been trying to imagine it from my gelding’s perspective, where maybe it’s me crossing his face -> triggers light differences -> triggers nerve pain -> triggers reaction. I could see a world where your guy conflates moving objects with the wind that gives him nerve pain. Very very curious to hear your thoughts on this if you’re open to sharing! Weirdly, this behavior from my horse doesn’t really present at all with spooky objects in front of his face, though generally they’re not moving from one field of vision to another.

Thanks very much for the supplement rec. It’s particularly great to hear that you were able to manage it and reduce the prevalence to a safe level. I’ll add Magnesium 5000 onto the list of things to try! Did it end up resolving the spookiness you mentioned?

NB: Allergy medication seems to have really reduced the frequency of the headshaking, though not the front-of-face-shyness.

[Simkie]

@not_quite_right

For your boy, have you been able to pinpoint the root of the one-eye behavior? You mentioned pain, so I’d be quite curious to know if you were able to determine the source.

So my guy popped with this (along with suddenly getting just more anxious/worried in general) last summer seemingly out of the blue. He’d been going really well, then…really not…so it was just very surprising. It coincided with some very stormy weather on the outset so I initially figured wild animal movement had him very upset.

When it didn’t seem to be resolving, I tried changing his tack, his bit, turnout order, stall location, tylenol, trazodone, treated for ulcers, all without change. He finally took a deep breath when I went to the robaxin, but I think it was treating for epm that really “fixed” it. My next step was a full on lameness/neuro exam but my gut feel was that it was more subtle than that.

His eye stuff was not nearly as severe as you describe, but it was in that same family–he just really preferred to keep me on one side. He has not gone back to that sort of behavior with emotional anxiety inducing events which just further indicates to me that it was some sort of thing in his body.

With how serious your guy is in telling you he’s not happy switching eyes, it does seem like really looking into his eyes is a very clear box to check, even though it’s a PITA to haul out. If he’s given the all clear there, exploring the various ways his body may not feel good is a good next step, especially since you know he’s got some issues.

I do laugh with the “being a bit of a dick” quandary. My guy also gets called a dick with fair frequency. With all the love in the world, of course

[beowulf]

I agree with Simkie about involving an ophthalmologist at some point.

Is he turning his head in tandem with you, blocking you from approaching his body with his head? Is this while you are grooming him, or is this while you are doing ground work or round penning him?

The turning the head to block your advancing is horse language for “I don’t want to be touched”. He’s communicating with you in a very safe, polite way he doesn’t want to --or can’t – do what you’re asking him. MHO.

My experience is only my personal experience, you take what works and leave the rest. It’s my policy to avoid lunging or extensive ground work with symptomatic c-spine horses. It hurts them to do these things.

He may now be at the point where he can’t cope with the day-to-day pain anymore. Those are not insignificant findings and you likely will have to add the injections to your routine maintenance to keep him comfortable.

Management wise, the best thing you can do besides injections for a neck case is keep their front feet appropriately trimmed (and sometimes shod), eliminate hay nets, and get them on as much turnout as physically possible. Consider supplementing glucosamine/MSM and extra Vit E if you haven’t. I do 8000 IU / day for my c-spine horse. It helps significantly.

[phantomhorse]

Do you have a round pen or smaller paddock where you can try crossing from side to side under his head while consistently touching his neck or chest vs walking around in front of him? I would be interested to hear if he reacts similarly.

[cayuse]

You beat me to it, I had the same thought. He’s shortening the neck or tipping his head a bit and triggering something.

[not_quite_right]

Huh, how fascinating. I’m so glad you were able to resolve it, and that you trusted your gut that something was off. That’s a huge number of rabbit holes to chase down. And of course the fact that the behavior hasn’t reemerged over time is as good an indicator as you can get that you figured out the specific issue.

I appreciate the thumbs-up on the eye exam. Probably will get that done alongside neuro and soundness exams while he’s out at the hospital.

Lol, glad to hear I’m not the only one! Your horse sounds very loved.

[not_quite_right]

I appreciate the additional vote for the ophthalmologist. And that’s a great question about the way the behavior manifests. He’s turning his head slightly ahead of me, to keep me on in whatever eye I’m already in. Once I’ve actually crossed over, he goes straight back to where he was (i.e. doesn’t continue to try to block me as I head towards his body, or wherever). This never manifests during grooming, but mostly because he gets groomed 99% of the time loose in his stall. It doesn’t manifest in the round pen or when changing directions on the lunge. It does manifest:

1. changing directions for groundwork that’s closer to his face (i.e. I’m sending him in 1 direction, then stop him and send him in the other direction)
2. if he’s stopped and chilling out, and I go to cross over in front of his face
3. if I go in front of him to open a gate and have to hold it open on the other side
4. if I’m putting the stirrups down on the left and cross in front to do the same on the right
5. swinging reins over his head

I completely agree with the general translation of ‘please don’t touch me’ – in this case it seems less clear since he is generally happy to be touched anywhere except his head. And the same exact ‘ask’ is a problem when I go around the front, but is a non-issue when I go around the hind. I can’t know for sure, but I think the thing that’s distressing him is the crossing over, not whatever he thinks I’m going to do on the other side, if that makes sense. I think your point about communicating politely that he can’t/doesn’t want to do what I’m asking is 1000% on the money – he’s generally very quiet and polite, so it’s as if he’s screaming.

I like what you said about taking what works and leaving what doesn’t as far as c-spine pain. I’ll keep an eye on it and try to get a handle on what’s tolerable and what isn’t for him. In your experience, were the horses showing signs of pain on the lunge, or was it that they would look fine but you noticed that the lunging/groundwork caused pain that manifested afterwards? I’d love to know what to be on the lookout for. Injections are definitely going to stay on the routine care list for his comfort and both our safety, since this triggered proprioception issues for him.

Thank you very much for the tips and tricks! I’ve got the vets doing front rads routinely to try to get his angles under control. Haynets – will do, that is a very easy fix. Turnout – already in as much as possible, though limited by the boarding facility unfortunately. Vit E – already supplemented. Glucosamine / MSM – hadn’t considered, and will add to the list.

My reply was a bit of a word salad but thank you very much for your thoughtful response. It’s extra-appreciated knowing that you’ve dealt with similar issues with your own horse.

[not_quite_right]

Oooh awesome question! He is totally totally unfazed by me going under his head. That’s one of the workarounds – when grooming him I will either go around his hind or under his neck.

[not_quite_right]

I appreciate the second vote in favor of this – before posting, I hadn’t seriously considered that it was neck-related. Having reflected for like a day I’m realizing the way the behavior manifests – visible discomfort, then the twitching and releasing – looked very similar to how he behaved when doing carrot stretches right before I had the vet out. It’s the only other time I’ve seen him doing anything like that. I’ll keep a closer eye on the mechanics of how it’s triggered in the future. Thanks again

[not_quite_right]

General update that I played around with him today and – go figure – no issues at all with me crossing in front of his face. Went on a mini trail ride, grazed, bucked in the round pen, played with a tarp, short workout, rolled. I crossed in front a whole lot of times both in the light and in the dark, with no reaction at all. I’ll continue keeping an eye on it. Thanks very much to everyone for the wisdom and solidarity – it means a lot.

[starsandsun]

I was going to suggest a behavioral adaption idea, where you start on one side with a tiny bit of a treat and get him to stretch his neck out as far as he can, and then move around the ‘1/2 circle’ until you’re on the other side, offering him stretch treats every little bit. I would be interesting in seeing if he stays focused on the treats - and you can stand so you are differently eyed as you move. Anyhow, just a thought to see what happens. At a minimum, it’s great for their neck.

[beowulf]

@not_quite_right

In your experience, were the horses showing signs of pain on the lunge, or was it that they would look fine but you noticed that the lunging/groundwork caused pain that manifested afterwards? I’d love to know what to be on the lookout for. Injections are definitely going to stay on the routine care list for his comfort and both our safety, since this triggered proprioception issues for him.

C-spine symptoms are different from horse to horse, some are more stoic than others, but very generally, I observed pain expressions and/or behavioral symptoms that were either more present or only present while lunging and/or keeping their neck in a fixed position (groundwork with rope halter, etc). Most of the c-spine horses I’ve worked with, I think pressure in/around their neck and face (rope halter, rope around neck, etc) has been overstimulating or painful for them - maybe because they are so sensitive to it because of the c-spine/nerve pathology?

To use my c-spine horse as an example, lunging with a line and cavesson isn’t beneficial for him. I don’t know if it is the weight of the lunge flopping around, the sensation of the ‘tugs’ of the lunge as it moves while he canters, the weight of the cavesson - who knows - but it is just enough to change his expression from willing to hard, and he braces his neck and clearly doesn’t enjoy it expression wise. He will free lunge and round pen just fine, the difference is pretty stark that I think even people unfamiliar with him would pick up on it.

Keeping c-spine horses comfortable is a delicate balancing act. Some might really not like lunging. Some might prefer it. And sometimes I think they have formulated the perfect way to ‘balance’ (hide) the pain. Us coming along with extra equipment or weight or who knows what, is just enough to upset the delicate house of cards they’ve built.

Mine is injected as needed. It used to be once every few years but now he is older (18) and benefits from once a year, depending on symptoms. He’ll tell me if his neck is sore - carrot stretches daily are a really good metric for me - not for their stretching utility, but to measure their range of motion against the day before, last week, etc.

What’s really helped his neck is keeping his feet a specific way. I have him on a shorter cycle than others. He grows great hoof and I wish he could be barefoot, but something about shoes really helps him. I keep his fronts in rims, and we do a ton of polework. Every time he is ridden, he is walking over poles or logs.

I didn’t think your response was word salad btw.

The more you shared the more I thought it really read like a sight thing; I’m currently occasionally helping a friend work her rescue horse who is blind in one eye (clinically diagnosed); some of what you shared is exactly how she behaves - especially objects crossing over in and out of her field of view.

I hope you can get to the bottom of it – please keep us updated!