I don’t think this is true. Nothing supports the idea of a “random” anomalous extra large puppy in a carefully planned, purebred litter. Somewhat larger, possibly. But not a puppy that doesn’t resemble the parents in any way. It would be more likely just bred larger and/or not bred from parents that met the standard. Or a puppy bred by a 2nd sire in the same litter, so potentially not purebred at all.
But not all purebred litters are “carefully planned.” My friend who is an animal control specialist with county LE tells me that they sometimes see these types of puppies when they investigate/raid puppy mills–i.e., 1 or 2 pups that stand out in the litter because of significant differences in size, type, and/or color. Sometimes it is because of a different sire (as you say), but at times the sire or dam is itself an anomaly, but because it is “purebred,” the puppy mill breeder uses it anyway to produce more litters.
It can also occur in “backyard litters”–i.e., people who are breeding their pet “just because,” and they select the closest and cheapest stud dog of the same breed, without concern that it is over (or under) standard. Oftentimes, both the bitch and dog are pet quality and represent several generations of “backyard breeding” where no one has paid much attention to the standard. Like puppy mill breeders, they only care that the dog or bitch is billed as a “purebred” whatever. And anomalies sometimes appear in those litters because the breeders aren’t using stock where that tendency has been carefully weeded out over the generations.
Yes, I agree entirely. My issue is with the idea of a “throwback” DNA from some previous point in history. That doesn’t make sense and is, in my opinion, a marketing ploy to explain the ones that don’t come out as expected. “Oh, this happens. It’s a throwback to the old style of the breed.” That doesn’t make sense.
And even in carefully planned litter you will get dogs that aren’t perfect - if it was that easy, all good breeders would be breeding dogs that perfectly match the standard. But to have one in a litter that doesn’t match the others in type, size, and color? Nah.
Okaydookee https://nationalpurebreddogday.com/t…ck-it-happens/
It’s called an “atavistic throwback,” and it can happen in many breeds. An atavistic throwback is when a trait reappears that had disappeared generations before. It’s not common, and it’s usually a big surprise even to the best of breeders, but such is genetics.
http://www.petpom.com/throwback-pomeranians
I highly doubt that a German Klein Spitz was sitting in our local middle of nowhere shelter and the dog we had had a foxier face. I met a lady on my job travels that had 2 small poms and one oversized (the full brother of one; the son of the other small one). She said the big guy surprised her when he was born. AND all the Pom breeders recognize the occurance.
You can find just as many sites that deny that there is any such thing as a “throwback Pomeranian.” https://pomeranian.org/throwback-pomeranian/
If it can happen in Poms, why not in all breeds? As I said - it’s common for dogs not to all be correct. If it was, the “sport” of breeding would be pointless. I had a 24" Brittany bred for parents in the standard (no larger than 20.5"). Would that be a throwback? (Not sure what it is a throwback to, exactly though?). Just oversized. And should not be bred because of the size.
I’ve been involved in purebred dogs for 20+ years and have never heard of an atavistic throwback. My breed doesn’t have rear dewclaws, but if one were born with them I would consider that an atavistic throwback. Having it be born and looking like another breed? That just doesn’t happen. Or, at least, I have never heard it happening and I know a LOT of breeders.
Just throwing out what may be a half halt on the Sheltie: barking. My mother had shelties for years, and my god the barking drove me batty.
AKC recognizes National Purebred Dog Day; I’m not sure they endorse that website.
Agreed this is an important consideration. Many Shelties are debarked because they commonly are nuisance barkers and other methods for retraining haven’t been successful. My friend that had 2 Shelties and 2 BCs did not debark hers, even though people often commented on it at agility competitions - one of her dogs barked non stop, even while running the course.
I’m actually half-halting myself on the Sheltie after going to their forums (as well as feedback here) and hearing that barking is such a predominant trait…not just bad vs good training. After a Shiba, going to the opposite extreme on vocalization would be hard to take. I’m fine with appropriate barking, but not neurotic/incessant barkers.
The search continues…
Our ‘large’ :rolleyes: Pomeranian never barked. Neither did my Pap, except when it was time to ‘serve’ her dinner or go for a walkie to survey her kingdom or torment the cats.
:lol:
A standard schnauzer ?
And here you go - these come in THREE SIZES! Pegueno, medio, and grande! Portuguese Podengos! smooth and rough coated.
Unfortunately the breed says:Pedengos are not to be trusted off leash. That is a high priority for me. Otherwise they look awesome.
I had a standard American Eskimo. He was 28 pounds. There are minis and toys which are both smaller, if I remember correctly. They can be very opinionated. Mine was never 100% housebroken. I think that is why he was turned into the shelter. They can be a bit wary with strangers. He was better off our property than he was meeting new people at our house. Very food motivated.
I would not recommend this breed with children. He could play really rough and was a bit free with his teeth during play. He also required a muzzle at the vets for the first few years we had him.
He was not a big barker. But I have been told they can be barkers.
VERY athletic. More than once he jumped straight from the floor onto the dining room table or the patio table. Not bad for a 28 pound dog. When he was excited for breakfast he would walk down the hallway to the kitchen backwards on his hind legs. Pretty fast too. Not border collie fast but probably not far behind. If I had the time he would have made a great agility dog. Not flyball as he had not interest in retrieving anything unless it was to keep it away from the lab.
He got spot brushed every 10 days to 2 weeks. He maybe got a bath once a year. He had one of those magical coats that just stayed white. After the grass was cut he would roll in it and get he face and paws green. Then next morning he was back to bright white.
He loved my first lab. He picked fights with my second lab. Bad enough that they had to be kept separate for 6 years, as in stitches twice bad. He was fine with the 2 females- foxhound and flat coated retriever. Truthfully I think he picked fights with the first lab but Watson was more tolerant than Cooper.
He was okay at obedience. Forget being off-leash in public or park.
Generally he was a pretty happy little dog. Everyone thought he was a she since he was pretty and I named him Casey which is pretty gender neutral. He came with the name Casper.
That’s a tough one because I think so much depends on training and not necessarily breed.
Can you describe what you mean by “trusted off leash?” (Or maybe you did already and I forgot). E.g. trusted off leash to be let out and not run away, even if you are in the house and not watching. Or, trusted off leash if you are walking the property together?
One of my dogs pushed the gate open this morning and decided to tour the neighborhood. I am sure he would have eventually come back, but I had to go find him. However, I take him plus my other 2 off lead every day for a supervised run (and backed up with e-collars.) He is very trustworthy in that respect.
That said, I do think there may be some breeds that would be less inclined to wander or hunt on their own. Herding breeds might be better at this than other types?
Ok, here’s what I did when the field was sort of wide open. Not that akc is the be all and end all, but there are lots of breeds, and if you go to their website, there’s a tab for “breeds a-z” with a fun quiz and comparison tool. It made me think about breeds I’d never considered. I’d post a link but the forum seems to be anti-link these days.
On the “trustable off leash” think, I’ve always loved the look of sighthounds, but have always read that they cannot be off leash, because if they take off after, say, a rabbit, they’re gone.
I ended up with a Portuguese Water Dog, and she’s the polar opposite - a genuine velcro dog from day 1, which is exactly what the PWD people say about them. I don’t think I could lose her if I tried. So there definitely are breeds that naturally stick closer, training aside.
Thanks Saskatoonian. I have used the AKC site along with others and appreciate everyone’s imput here. Frankly, with my size preference and off-leash prerequisites, the list isn’t as long as I thought! Even tho my Shiba bucked the stereotypes of the breed, I want to stack the deck in my favor this time…training or no. Thanks for the tip on the PWD, tho with the small female/large male standard spanning 35 - 60lbs, that is bigger than ideal for me.
oh, yes, the PWD is too big for you - didn’t intend to recommend one. Just pointing out that some dogs are naturally more inclined to stay with their humans than others. What about a spaniel? There are some adorable little spaniels, though I don’t know about breathing and temperament issues. Anyway, have fun and good luck and let us know what you decide!
German Pinscher? Not sure if they’re bigger than what you’re looking for (on the low end, they’re 24 pounds according to some very brief research I just did), but they seem like awesome, protective, loyal dogs. If they’re anything like the Doberman, which I have, I couldn’t loose my dog when he’s off leash if I tried. He always has one eye on me.
How about a shorty jack? We have two at our barn and they are wonderful little dogs. Not crazy energetic either! Here’s the website of the breeder. madrabeag.com
I’m having trouble deciding between a shorty jack and a English Springer Spaniel. I loved my springers (b&w, lost the second on just before Thanksgiving 😞), but I’d like a smaller dog this time. We had a litter at the barn but it was too close to losing my girl. Maybe next year. But the springer pups sure are cute too…