Want to buy a good hunter horse, but...

[littlebook]

I’m an adult rider who grew up riding hunters. I’m looking to buy my first horse soon, woo! I currently ride at a great show barn with lovely horses, but I’d like to have a bit more consistency in who I ride and hopefully train to go to some local shows. My question: am I stuck only looking at bay and chestnut Warmbloods and TB’s as hunter prospects, or can I widen the search? I love Paints and Quarter Horses, but growing up I showed a variety of school horses in hunter classes (Appy’s, etc) and I have a lot of memories of basically never being glanced at because the lesson horses I rode were never really the true ‘hunter’ type. I’m torn… on the one hand, I only want to do a few local shows every year, nothing rated. On the other, I don’t want to be laughed out of the ring or not even have a chance because I happen to be riding a horse who may have cow-like spots. (One of my favorite horses ever was a great Paint!) Tell me the truth: if I want to show hunters, am I sticking to the bays?

Thank you for your input! (PS- I’m in Northern VA if it matters; the showing can be competitive.)

[222orchids]

If you are not going on the AA circuit and you have a lovely moving horse with a good jump, you should do well in the hunters, no matter what color it is. I see paints at our local shows all the time. A few years ago there was a top Hunter named “Remarkable” that was a bay horse that had some crazy genetic fluke that gave him gigantic white parts of his body, and he was not truly a paint. But wildly colored. Look it up on YouTube. His coloring did not hurt him any… I would buy the horse you feel comfortable and safe on, who can do the job you’d like it to do, that you can afford, and that you will love. Even if it is purple. Best of luck!

[Scribbler]

This is a question to ask your coach and others involved in the sport locally. Also go to watch some shows and see how the horses look and move.

There are two different issues with buying an unusual breed for a discipline.

One is whether the horse has the confirmation, posture, and gait for the discipline. A stock horse breed may not have the length of stride for the hunter lines (or for the dressage trot). That is a problem based in conformation and you can’t change it much.

Then there is color. Obviously there are fancy colored tb and WB. There are pinto lines of WB, and there are splash pinto TB, and there are Knabstrupper. And there are grey WB and OTTB of course.

You would be better off with a correctly moving grey or pinto WB than a bay QH, I think.

But realize everyone else wants the same thing and horses will be priced accordingly.

So if you want a horse that checks all your boxes you will pay more. Sometimes a lot more. Hunters are probably the priciest discipline for a number of reasons.

[NoSuchPerson]

@littlebook

(PS- I’m in Northern VA if it matters; the showing can be competitive.)

I think this makes a big difference. Given your location, I think yes, you probably do need to stick to WBs and TBs or individuals of other breeds (e.g. a big Appendix QH) who happen to look and perform like a WB of TB.

If you had said “local shows only” in less competitive areas of the country, then I would have said go ahead and find a nice paint or QH in whatever color strikes your fancy, as long as your trainer feels it would be competitive at those local shows.

[Madison]

You don’t need a particular breed, but you do need to consider the type. The problem with some of the non-warmblood or TB breeds is that they aren’t all built for the hunter job, so you might not have the length of stride you need to get down the lines or other similar limitations (as a generalization, obviously not true of all of them). But if they are spotted or QH or whatever and have the skill set you need to do the job, you are definitely not going to get laughed out of the ring, particularly at the locals where you see more variety. And it is worth running it by your trainer, because they will know the specifics of the shows you will be going to. So, look for something you like and most of all that is fun to ride, but keep in mind that the kind of things that do matter are whether they have the step, can you get the lead changes, etc . . . because those are obviously the killers in the hunter ring.

[skrgirl]

I have never had an issue with showing my QHs in VHSA shows. Ive even done decent at a handful of rated shows, and it wasnt the breed that held me back. If it looks like a hunter, jumps like a hunter, and moves like a hunter, no one is truly going to care what breed it is.

[Redlei44]

Especially at local/schooling shows, nobody is going to “laugh you out of the ring” if your mount is safe (physically capable and well behaved), well groomed and fitted, and you are both prepared for the job you’re trying to do. Color and breed don’t matter. You’ll unfortunately see some riders and some mounts that do not meet one or more of the above standards.

As others have pointed out, the above can be very fulfilling and much easier on the budget, but it is likely different than winning at local/schooling shows. Again separate from color or breed, you need a mount that does the step, has the lead change, and has at least a moderate amount of jumping style at the height you want to jump. These are the traits that cost money; sport-bred horses tend to have them at higher rates.

Is your trainer assisting you with searching for and evaluating prospects that are in your budget? What kind of feedback have you gotten?

[beau159]

@littlebook

I don’t want to be laughed out of the ring

Tell me the truth: if I want to show hunters, am I sticking to the bays?

Well, you and me can be laughed out of the ring together. Granted it’s not a rated show, but I am going to be doing my first AQHA show in about a month on my GREY quarter horse and I’m entering him in the hunter classes too. I watched the Lucas Oil World show online and I noticed they were all bay, pretty much, in the Hunter classes. It was rather boring to watch, actually, because everyone looked the exact same. There was no variety whatsoever.

So I am sure we will stick out like a sore thumb! Oh well.

@littlebook

I’m torn… on the one hand, I only want to do a few local shows every year, nothing rated.

Ultimately, I guess it depends on your goals. If you think you might want to do some rated shows DOWN THE ROAD, then prepare yourself by looking at the appropriate horses.

I can’t speak to your specific area, but I can’t imagine that local shows are going to care too much about your horse’s color. Last I read, the class is supposed to be judged on the horse’s movement and says nothing in the judging about their color. But what do I know…

[Bunker]

You’re not limited to bays and chestnuts - you can look at grays too! As others have said, it’s not color that precludes quarter horses and appys, it’s the stride and jump that they are lacking. There are a few paint horses (but they are warm bloods) that are successful, especially in the equitation here in CA.

[2DogsFarm]

Agree with others who have said if horse moves like a Hunter & makes the strides, color won’t affect placing.
That said, loud color does draw the eye, so any error could be magnified.
If ribbons are utmost to you, maybe stick with the “safer” bay/gray/chestnut unless you find a paint that has the Right Stuff.
Your trainer s/b available - for a fee - to evaluate any horse you find as to suitability in the Hunter ring.
BUT: if you find a horse that makes you happy & won’t be disappointed if you aren’t getting the prizes, I say Go 4 It!*

*this from a gal whose DH evented a strawberry roan sabino TWH.
Stick out much? :rolleyes:
But horse did well in Dressage, jumped brave x-country & DH cared nothing about placing - he showed for fun & to keep me company

[ToTheNines]

Yes, your limiting factor, as the others have said is the 12’ stride. At the local shows and at 2’6" or less they just canter over so the “jump” doesn’t matter as much. But higher than that, even at the local shows, you will get easily beat if your horse jumps badly.

This 12’ stride thing is a pet peeve of mine. If I ruled the horse show world, I would not have related distances at 2’6" and below. It is more difficult to make the strides at the lower jumps and the smaller horses have too much trouble beating larger strided ones.

[doublesstable]

I showed at local schooling shows as well as A shows in the 70s and 80s on a colorful Appy. He was part Thoroughbred and raced. He was a fantastic mover. I did get the looks at times (often from other riders) but usually did very well in the Hunters because he moved and jumped good.

I would suggest you go to a few shows you plan on showing at and see what is out there. See what is pinning and see what you would feel comfortable owning and showing.

I would never be horse-y prejudice. A good horse suited for the job is a good horse.

I attached a picture of my appy. He lived until he was 40 years old and I got him as a 3 year old off the track. The last picture he was 40 years old

[Dewey]

I also think the height you jump will make a big difference. If you don’t aspire to jumping higher than, say, 2’6" or maybe 2’9", a nice paint, appy, or QH can probably do just fine, assuming it has a bit of stride and a cute jump.

i recently took my 15.3-hand Appendix mare to our first A show. I was very apprehensive given what I have read on this forum about the pressures to fit in. My horse is a dark brown, but she definitely does not move or look like a warmblood–more like an old-style TB hunter. We showed at 2’6"; some of the divisions were unrated and huge. Most of the other competitors I showed against were on warmbloods, but not all of them were. My mare and I ended up doing very well.

I encourage you to go for the type you like.

[longlanefarm]

@Scribbler

Sometimes a lot more. Hunters are probably the priciest discipline for a number of reasons.

Genuinely curious as to why this is? What are those reasons?

[Toblersmom]

@Bunker

You’re not limited to bays and chestnuts - you can look at grays too! As others have said, it’s not color that precludes quarter horses and appys, it’s the stride and jump that they are lacking. There are a few paint horses (but they are warm bloods) that are successful, especially in the equitation here in CA.

If the colored horses you refer to are warmbloods, they are pintos, not Paints.

[Mayaty02]

@longlanefarm

Genuinely curious as to why this is? What are those reasons?

Well I didn’t post the original post but can help with some reasons. To me, the reason hunters are so expensive starts with the fact that they are very competitive, i.e. depending on where you are competing and at what level, you may have 20-30+ in any one class. Also, in reality, hunter showing is a beauty contest… beauty counts. The winning horse will not only be attractive standing still, they will move and jump great, as well as have the stride to make the lines ride easily and slowly. Then there is the training needed to make it look easy and smooth, usually lots of pro riding/showing to gain experience before an adult ammie or junior can get in and show it. So the talent and beauty of the horse will naturally make it more expensive and the training put on it, will also add $$.

to the OP, I’m in northern Virginia and while I don’t see them often, there are pintos out there. I have not seen an appaloosa since pony days but certainly wildly marked creatures, including horses with full white legs and belly spots, are out and about and are not penalized as long as they are quality animals. Like someone else said, the louder the horses coloring, the more they get noticed and remembered, so they better be good! ETA, I just noticed you only want to do the local circuit, you will find plenty of “off breed” horses out in the VHSA circuit, such as TBs, paints, appendix, quarter horses, draft crosses etc. So if that is your goal, then get whatever you like. For rated, you will see some TBs and Appendix horses doing ok but much more warmbloods and solid colors.

[atl_hunter]

@littlebook

I’m an adult rider who grew up riding hunters. I’m looking to buy my first horse soon, woo! I currently ride at a great show barn with lovely horses, but I’d like to have a bit more consistency in who I ride and hopefully train to go to some local shows. My question: am I stuck only looking at bay and chestnut Warmbloods and TB’s as hunter prospects, or can I widen the search? I love Paints and Quarter Horses, but growing up I showed a variety of school horses in hunter classes (Appy’s, etc) and I have a lot of memories of basically never being glanced at because the lesson horses I rode were never really the true ‘hunter’ type. I’m torn… on the one hand, I only want to do a few local shows every year, nothing rated. On the other, I don’t want to be laughed out of the ring or not even have a chance because I happen to be riding a horse who may have cow-like spots. (One of my favorite horses ever was a great Paint!) Tell me the truth: if I want to show hunters, am I sticking to the bays?

Thank you for your input! (PS- I’m in Northern VA if it matters; the showing can be competitive.)

Good for you for wanting to splash some color over the hunter ring. I’m right there with you and would love to waltz in on a loud leopard. I think society has changed a bit, and the hunter ring has evolved along with it. We don’t see the same dings we did in the past for riders and horses that don’t fit the mold, and that is a good thing as everyone is different.

Having shown Apploosas and NSBA on the breed circuit, I will tell you that while the pleasure bred horses have flat knees that are to die for, they are tend to have a flatter knee when jumping as a result, which is not ideal.

There are a lot of paint colors in the WBs, and now you will even start to see Appaloosa/Knabstrupper crosses (Stal Wilten has an appy colored hunter now that I am seriously drooling over).

You can also look into the Waps Spotted horses, as they are Appaloosas that are bred to be sport horses. They tend to be more typey than the AQHA crosses.

Knabstruppers are nice, but you would likely want a cross as they tend to be a little small. Could be a great small junior, though!!

I think we will be seeing more and more color now that the European barns are getting some real stunners to export. Good luck, and I hope you end up seeing spots!!

[Scribbler]

@longlanefarm

Genuinely curious as to why this is? What are those reasons?

A previous poster answered this pretty fully.

I would add that hunters as opposed to jumpers or eventers is more ammie friendly in that you don’t jump at speed. So it seems that in many high income areas, hunters is the popular discipline. It doesn’t exist in Europe BTW and I think it is more popular in the US than even in Canada.

Hunters at the high end as structured in the US requires more wrap around trainer support than the other English disciplines. This makes it expensive but also makes it achievable for a busy adult ammie who can only ride a few days a week.

Trainers can warm up the horse and even show it at the same show ammie shows at, neither of which are allowed in dressage.

[findeight]

Since this sounds like your first, owned show Hunter., really think you need to use your trainers skill and contacts selecting a Hunter for you. By all means mention to her you would like to try to find something with a bit more flash. But be aware more flash is far more common in breeds built for other jobs and the conformation to excell at those other jobs does not allow a good Hunter round. They have a shoulder, for example, that won’t allow the horizontal forearm for high knees over the jump and, as mentioned, are bred and built for a shorter, softer step that physically cannot be lengthened to make the lines.

The physical build to create the Hunter jump is the most important thing to shop for. If you start with that and add chrome instead if just looking for that flash you’ll do better, Your trainer is an expert in that build and should be respected…but, again, you could ask her to look at a little more bling. Be aware that might also raise the price.

Somebody upthread mentioned their QH doing both As and QH shows? Certainly out there but something like that might be out of your price range if they are trained up and successfully competing in both.

Think it would be a fabulous idea to sit and watch the shows before buying. Pay attention to the type horse that pins well, doesn’t have to win, look for consistent decent trips. Paint them all plain brown in your mind and concentrate on the step, jump and overall quality… And make yourself sit and watch for hours, until you are bored with it. That’s what the judge does and when you start seeing details. If you look at sale horses after watching hours of rounds, it gets a whole lot quicker and far easier weeding through what you are looking at. Nope, nope, yes Id like to get on that one…

Your trainer also will have a better idea of the temperament you need and how the horses she presents to you meet your needs. Your part is to really consider each, ride it, jump it, learn from it, be clear on what you do it don’t like. Paint them all plain brown in your mind so you can concentrate solely on ability and suitability. If it’s a flasher one, paint it brown so you don’t get swayed by a pretty package,

Just for the record, owned or leased many horses of many colors, except plain bay. Never had one. Never tried to avoid them but in two equally suitable horses, went for more flash. But all the other necessary attributes were there, color was just a bonus. That’s what you need to keep foremost in your mind, all the other boxes need to be checked, color is just the icing on the cake. Don’t fall for a stale or bad tasting cake with pretty frosting.

And you can full lease too, let you get better and start showing without a huge commitment to a plain horse that’s really the best match for you, today. 6 months or a year further down the road, more horses will be suitable then are today, deepen your prospect pool.

[Scribbler]

I agree with the idea of training your eye by watching many many classes in your discipline. It’s harder to train your eye in a lesson or training environment where horses might have some good moments and some less smooth ones. Sit and watch and try to imagine the feel of the ride as you watch.

For contrast you might then go watch some jumpers and see the difference.

Then go home and critically watch all the horses there, to see how they stack up against the disciplinary ideal.

You want to look primarily at how they use their legs both hind end and front knees. Thats more important than head carriage or a pretty face. I mean obviously the hunter has a low head carriage. But so does a pitty patty Western pleasure horse. Head carriage is not the distinguishing feature, it is stride, knees, hind quarters.

If you rode non talented horses in hunters as a kid and were surrounded by non talented horses then your eye will see that as adequate and you need to retrain your eye.