Warm not hot hay bale

[Draftygirl]

The skid steer man brought me two bales of orchard hay to try last week when he was here. The first one I opened right away and gave the 2 mares each a flake, and afterward they went on a 24 hour strike against our last year’s hay. I stood my ground and kept giving them the old hay in order to use up what’s left.

But today I opened the other bale and it was warmish in the center of the flakes on one end. I spread the bale out on the cement floor and the flakes on the other end weren’t warm at all.

It smells really good and the horses love love love it. It was baled two weeks ago and we’ve had a rainy spring – the hayfield in back of my property (different farmer) didn’t get mowed at all.

He’s supposed to bring a load tomorrow. Is there a way for him to check the bales before he brings them that I could suggest or should I look for different hay? I tried to find an old thread on this subject and couldn’t find much.

[alterhorse]

The concern would be the moisture content of the parts of the bale that were warm.

In my experience with grass hays. 20% moisture content is when I start to see a few moldy flakes here and there. If the moisture is above 20%, I won’t have it in the barn. Grass hay that is between 10 to 18% moisture is ideal.

I use an electronic hay tester like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4TXLl7XZLM

Or you can do a moisture test using a microwave oven and a sensitive weighing scale, as described here:
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G3151

[Hermein]

How big is a load where you are? Is it doable for you to open the bales, then tie them back together with an extension on your middle string?*

Anyhow, if the bale was warm on one end, and good throughout the rest of the bale, I’d go ahead and buy it. But, just in case, can you set it up on pallets outside your barn?

I’ve heard, but never tried, putting rock salt in between the layers of your stack to absorb any moisture and lower the risk of fire.

If you have a wire coat hanger, you can make a hook on one end to fish little amounts of hay out of the middle of several bales to check for condition.

*On a 3-string bale, cut the middle string in the middle, then tie an extra piece of string about 2 ft long to the cut ends of that middle string you’ve just cut. Then, after you’re sure the modified middle string is soundly tied, cut the two outside strings. Do this in the place where you intend to place the stack. This will allow more air to circulate through the bale.

Good luck.

[Draftygirl]

[QUOTE=alterhorse;8206862]
The concern would be the moisture content of the parts of the bale that were warm.

In my experience with grass hays. 20% moisture content is when I start to see a few moldy flakes here and there. If the moisture is above 20%, I won’t have it in the barn. Grass hay that is between 10 to 18% moisture is ideal.

I use an electronic hay tester like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4TXLl7XZLM

Or you can do a moisture test using a microwave oven and a sensitive weighing scale, as described here:
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G3151[/QUOTE]

I would try the microwave oven test but my kitchen scale got corroded and I never got around to replacing it. I just texted him though and simply told him about the bale and asked him to test his bales before he loads tomorrow. I wasn’t sure what kind of tests were out there short of opening each and every bale.

[QUOTE=Hermein;8206866]How big is a load where you are? Is it doable for you to open the bales, then tie them back together with an extension on your middle string?*

Anyhow, if the bale was warm on one end, and good throughout the rest of the bale, I’d go ahead and buy it. But, just in case, can you set it up on pallets outside your barn?

I’ve heard, but never tried, putting rock salt in between the layers of your stack to absorb any moisture and lower the risk of fire.

If you have a wire coat hanger, you can make a hook on one end to fish little amounts of hay out of the middle of several bales to check for condition.

*On a 3-string bale, cut the middle string in the middle, then tie an extra piece of string about 2 ft long to the cut ends of that middle string you’ve just cut. Then, after you’re sure the modified middle string is soundly tied, cut the two outside strings. Do this in the place where you intend to place the stack. This will allow more air to circulate through the bale.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

He’s bringing 65 bales, that’s what he has left out of 200. The hay has to go in the barn; I don’t have anywhere else for it, especially with the wet weather we’re having.

Around here bales have two strings, but I can try that on a few. Your coat hanger trick sounds like an easier way to check them.

[alterhorse]

@Draftygirl;8206888

I would try the microwave oven test but my kitchen scale got corroded and I never got around to replacing it. I just texted him though and simply told him about the bale and asked him to test his bales before he loads tomorrow. I wasn’t sure what kind of tests were out there short of opening each and every bale.

Most reputable farmers will buy back any bad bales if they know your storing it properly (if they deliver it and stack it, they should know how it’s stored).

The thing about fresh baled hay that’s been baled too wet, is that it may not show signs of molding right away. But if it’s going to mold, one sign will be heat in the bale, and if you put your nose to the opened bale, it will usually smell like it’s fermenting.

If the bales are too wet they can become a fire hazard if they heat up in the pile while fermenting. That’s why it’s good to know the moisture of the bales. It’s also why the electronic hay moisture testers with the probe that you stick into the bale, will also give you a reading of the temperature inside the bale.

But in the case of horse hay baled in wet years, where the moisture level is not high enough to become a fire hazard, but is likely to cause only a few random moldy flakes in some of the bales. Then pulling out the moldy flakes when you find them is not uncommon.

It’s wise to buy the best hay that you can afford. But in some years you may have to settle for the best hay that you can get, as long it’s safe to store, safe to feed, and you know what a moldy flake looks and/or smells like when you come across one.

I’ve must have pitched hundreds of moldy flakes into the manure spreader over the years. But that doesn’t mean that I buy hay that I know is has too much moisture. If the hay is treated with a hay preservative, I might be a little more tolerant of a few bales with sections that read slightly over 18% moisture.

But if I get multiple moisture meter readings in a load of bales that read over 20%, I won’t put that hay in the barn.

[gumtree]

I bale a fair amount of hay each year, over 200 hundred tons. Just finished our fist cutting of orchard/timothy in a very short weather window with humidity being on the high side during baling. So the baling moisture content was a bit higher than we would like. High teens instead of 10-15%. But it came out just fine. Can’t speak about hay baled in the arid west but here where orchard and timothy was developed and grows best all baled hay will be warm, a bit hot to some for a week or 2 after baling. If checked with a moisture probe several days after baling it will read from the low to mid 20s. This is to be expected along with being on the warm side of things if cracked open before it has gone through a complete “dry down”. The smell will change from a “sweet fresh” cut to more of a “sweet nutty” smell. Depending on how it is put up, ambient temps and humidity it should fully cure several weeks after being baled. The moisture content will settle into the low teens in a month or two. And drop more come fall depending on location.

Hay that is baled under “ultra-dry” conditions will suffer from leaf shatter while being baled. When feed it will crumble and not be nearly as palatable as horse like. Anybody that buys “puts up” hay that was baled a week or two+ should expect to see moisture content above 20% while curing. Hay that was treated while being baled can go above 25% with no worries. The important number is the moisture content when it is being baled not a week or so later. There is ALWAYS going to be a few “bad” bales from time to time. Moisture levels can change radically in different part of a field along with dry down after cutting. Time of day when baled plays a big role also.

Fresh cut hay should be staked on its side. The moisture “wicks out” better.

Edit for clarity: The above is based on my experience in my neck of the woods, SE Pa baling a pure stand of 2/3 orchard, 1/3 timothy. I have learned from my mistakes over the years. I learned the true meaning of the old adage, “it’s a lot easier to put up good hay than bad” the hard way.

[alterhorse]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8207018]
I bale a fair amount of hay each year, over 200 hundred tons. Just finished our fist cutting of orchard/timothy in a very short weather window with humidity being on the high side during baling. So the baling moisture content was a bit higher than we would like. High teens instead of 10-15%. But it came out just fine. Can’t speak about hay baled in the arid west but here where orchard and timothy was developed and grows best all baled hay will be warm, a bit hot to some for a week or 2 after baling. If checked with a moisture probe several days after baling it will read from the low to mid 20s. This is to be expected along with being on the warm side of things if cracked open before it has gone through a complete “dry down”. The smell will change from a “sweet fresh” cut to more of a “sweet nutty” smell. Depending on how it is put up, ambient temps and humidity it should fully cure several weeks after being baled. The moisture content will settle into the low teens in a month or two. And drop more come fall depending on location.

Hay that is baled under “ultra-dry” conditions will suffer from leaf shatter while being baled. When feed it will crumble and not be nearly as palatable as horse like. Anybody that buys “puts up” hay that was baled a week or two+ should expect to see moisture content above 20% while curing. Hay that was treated while being baled can go above 25% with no worries. The important number is the moisture content when it is being baled not a week or so later. There is ALWAYS going to be a few “bad” bales from time to time. Moisture levels can change radically in different part of a field along with dry down after cutting. Time of day when baled plays a big role also.

Fresh cut hay should be staked on its side. The moisture “wicks out” better.[/QUOTE]

If hay has a “true” moisture content measurement made before it’s baled, where does the moisture come from that makes the moisture content rise after it’s been baled?

I understand the typical 5% variable in the field, but I’ve never had hay go up in moisture after baling. The bales will equalize in moisture as the more moist areas of the bale have their moisture drawn into the dryer areas.

Ask five different farmers, get five different answers.

[Draftygirl]

He said he’ll check each bale before it’s loaded. I’ll just keep an eye on the hay and check it with a crowbar or something now and then. Thanks for all your suggestions.

[melhorse]

I have had warm hay that was just baled the day before I got it delivered. The outside was dry, the bales were light but inside each flake was a warmth-not a damp feel. The bales did not make it longer than a month before getting very dusty and moldy.

I would assume it is safe to feed until it starts to mold or if you have a breezy barn it may dry out enough but it is a ticking time bomb

[nu2u]

make sure it is stacked CUT SIDE UP so it can breathe…

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=alterhorse;8207046]
If hay has a “true” moisture content measurement made before it’s baled, where does the moisture come from that makes the moisture content rise after it’s been baled?

I understand the typical 5% variable in the field, but I’ve never had hay go up in moisture after baling. The bales will equalize in moisture as the more moist areas of the bale have their moisture drawn into the dryer areas.

Ask five different farmers, get five different answers. :)[/QUOTE]

When hay is first baled and checked with a moisture probe as it comes out of the baler that is not a “true measurement” it is a “relative measurement”. And is also dependent on the type of hay and geographic location and ambient weather conditions. There is more “moisture” in the hay that has not been “released” when first checked. Because the bale is still at “room temperature” and has not started to “sweat” from being compressed. Grade school science talked about heat being the byproduct of tightly compressing something. Water when put under high pressure will boil and loose its viscosity. Which is why it is not used in “hydraulic” systems. Oil boils at a much higher temp.

So when hay is compressed the “water” in it starts to heat up and evaporate. Releasing more moisture an hour or 2 latter. Depending on ambient temps and humidity when put up heat and moisture can and will continue to raise over the next couple of days. IME in my neck of the woods it can and does rise more than 10 “points” in the first few days and hopefully settles in the mid to low 20% mark by the end of the first week. My hay is put up in the loft of my very big Bank barn. The wood floors, walls and a very high roof tends to keep the ambient humidity levels lower bu also sucking up ambient moisture . Which allows the bales to “sweat out” the retained moisture faster after being baled. If the surrounding “air” is “saturated” the bales can only release, wick so much moisture. Hay baled at higher moisture levels and put up in steel buildings with concrete floors will be up against it.

We ideally like to bale when humidity levels are in the 40s. But high humidity is a fact of life where orchard and timothy grows best. More times than not we have to deal with baling conditions in the 50s and low 60s. Late afternoon it will zoom up so the ideal baling window is around 12-4. Not a lot of time to get a lot of hay in without big equipment, lots of wagons and people to unload. That’s why around here large squares are much easier to find than small squares. Round bales are pretty much history around here. The quality of the bale is not nearly as good and wastes a lot of storage space. Much more of a PITA to move around also.

Just about all large hay producers in my neck of the wood use a preservative as a matter of course. It allows baling when relative moisture levels of the cut hay are between 15-20% at most. And post moisture levels can go about 25% with little to no worries of it getting moldy. They will “heat up” a bit more which is what causes molding but the preservative prevents mold from developing. We use a dry product made by Silo King.
Hay producers in different parts of the country have developed/learned different “instincts”, “rules of thumb” when making the judgment call to cut and bale or not. What applies here does not necessarily apply in other parts of the country.

That’s’ the long answer. The short answer, it doesn’t “come from” anywhere by and large the “excess moisture” is already there at the time of baling. The curing, compression and heat releases more for a couple of days to a week or so and this becomes the “true moisture” content and then drops with time. By early to late fall all my 3 cuttings will settle to around 10-14%. I am feeding my first cutting that was done 3 weeks ago. Several days after baling moisture content was low to mid 20s as high as 27%. When checked the other day it has settled to a low of 18% high of low 20s. Some of the opened bales are still a little warm but it is of excellent quality. All of the horses dig in. To be clear we used Silo King Hay preservative on the entire cutting. Weather window have been very short and problematic. We had 3 days to cut and bale 60 acres. The yield and quality is outstanding.

I have never found cured bales to “suck up” more moisture from high ambient humidity where I store it.

[Jackie_amp_Starlette]

I have to say that I am in MI too, and got 300 bales from my hay supplier…200 were fine, but the last 100 went moldy. He did take them back, but I helped him put them in the hay wagon and the silence was deafening. This is someone I’ve used for five years and never had a problem with. I hope I did not lose him as a supplier (he is baling this weekend and I will find out if he calls me or not) and I need 200 more bales, but then I am not happy that he did not say he was sorry, or that it happens.

And no, it’s not the way I stacked them (cut side up) - they felt heavier than the first two loads, and I stacked all 300 the same way, and only three high with an arms width between for air, and I have a huge 100 year old dairy barn with the hay loft up on the 2nd story, wood floors, and have been putting up hay there for years. I also had two experienced hay people (now farriers) check the bales and they said they were iffy bales to start with.

Oh, and his comment was the hay he has down is “leafy and will need an extra day to cure.” Hmm…wish he would have just apologized.

[Dramapony_misty]

[QUOTE=nu2u;8207465]
make sure it is stacked CUT SIDE UP so it can breathe…[/QUOTE]

We have been making our own hay for years and this is the #1 way to save any hay that is on the ragged edge of turning bad. We also use the “sniff test” on each bale or if a flake just doesn’t look or feel quite right. Trust me, unless your nose isn’t working, you WILL be able to smell the mold.

We have never had a sick horse by doing this (though we do have one mare who is a delicate flower and will colic at the hint of something changing…drastic temp swings, switching feed too fast, etc).

[Dramapony_misty]

[QUOTE=Jackie & Starlette;8212098]
I have to say that I am in MI too, and got 300 bales from my hay supplier…200 were fine, but the last 100 went moldy. He did take them back, but I helped him put them in the hay wagon and the silence was deafening. This is someone I’ve used for five years and never had a problem with. I hope I did not lose him as a supplier (he is baling this weekend and I will find out if he calls me or not) and I need 200 more bales, but then I am not happy that he did not say he was sorry, or that it happens.[/QUOTE]

IF he is generally a good guy, my guess is that he felt horribly embarrassed at giving you bad stock. Maybe that was the best he could do for that time and kept his fingers crossed that they went the right way.

My father is like this…he takes exceptional pride in his hay crop and if anything is amiss (cut too late, too seedy, to weedy- we’ve been battling horse nettle in our second cuttings) he is a bear to be around for a while. He prides himself in providing a premium product and anything less than that is a failure to him.

[Jackie_amp_Starlette]

Well, I hope so…so far, no call and I know they are baling. It might be they want to get it done and wait until next week, but that is unusual for them. Sigh. May have to hunt for another supplier.