As someone above pointed out, the Facebook post from the trainer is public. Anyone that feels they are not getting the full story can go there and ask your questions directly to the parties involved, and you can feel free to tell the trainer that she’s a terrible writer and that the family should quit playing the military card.
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I was saying we are not getting the full story from you. I do understand that you are not privy to everything, but I doubt we’d get the full story from the trainer as well.
Yes it is embarrassing and and really crass to use the military card. People choosing the military for a career should not be used to gain special treatment.
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This is for basically everything tested for at quarantine. Theres a flow chart for glanders in there. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/animals/downloads/testing-equidae-during-quarantine.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwif9-mu0YPnAhVtU98KHRgWAb8QFjABegQIDhAH&usg=AOvVaw1PRDBd48JDnsM9n-vMjcot
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If you read what I said, I agree with you, they shouldn’t just release the horse. I sure as heck dont want any horses here getting glanders.
My point was, if the horse is sick (with glanders or something else), I would think that they would have had some kind of option for treating the horse. If it does have glanders, from what I understood, antibiotics might cure symptoms but the disease would still be present and presumably come up positive still (though I may very well be wrong). But if the whole thing was “he came up positive on this test that can have false positives, but he also has a fever so we are going to assume he has glanders and not bother trying to treat him”? Idk, that’s weird to me.
And not to mention, isn’t glanders treatable anyways? I mean, could you not try treating it, give it some time if needed before testing so you don’t get a false negative (if you even can with the test they used, sounds like it’s more likely to show a false pos), and then release him? And if that isn’t an option, then tell them straight up their options are euthanasia or sending the horse back, or to retest and wait for results which will take this specific amount of time then decide between the options if it’s still positive, but they cannot under any circumstances let this horse anywhere in the US? Which may be what they did say, it just sounded to me like they were kind of vague about what could be done to the family.
Thinking about it though…if they did say that the only choices were euthanasia or to send the horse back, but can’t euthanize without the family’s consent, EU wouldn’t take the horse back, and THAT’s why the horse has been stuck in limbo…that’s a whole different story.
I think I feel the worst for that poor horse. I don’t think he is going to make it out of this situation.
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I actually completely agree.
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I feel this is most likely a bureaucratic catch-22 situation, and those don’t get resolved quickly.
Horse is most likely fine, and USDA vet most likely knows that, given the prevalence of this disease in the country of origin as well as the multiple negative WB results. Hence no panic up the import chain. However, the recognized test to clear horses for US import is the CFT, which while it is known to give false positives and has cross-reactivity with other organisms, is the official test the horse must clear.
That’s why they probably gave so many re-test chances, in the hope the false positive would clear. But if it is cross-reacting with something else, it’ll keep popping positive.
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You dont treat for glanders in a non endemic country. They’re euthanized or shipped out to somewhere positive. Treating can clear clinical signs but they can still have latent infections and shed bacteria. Kind of like hoof and mouth positives get euthanized.
I believe the family was offered euthanasia or send back at the get go. It was deemed financially not feasible to send back based on the first post. So they continued to keep horse in quarantine and retest (again per the first post). I’m assuming they hoped it would test negative on the second test since the western blot was negative. Once you go down the rabbit hole you’re throwing good money after bad when he continues to test positive.
This link has the entire protocols used for testing for every disease they test for at quarantine.
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Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.
After finding the trainer on FB and reading her posts and responses…I wouldn’t be surprised if she was the one mostly handling the situation and recommending they keep trying. She doesn’t come across as the brightest. I don’t trust anyone that uses that many exclamation marks.
No treatment. Per OIE. https://www.oie.int/en/animal-health-in-the-world/animal-diseases/glanders/#F
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Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying.
After reading the trainer’s posts on facebook, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear she was the one mostly calling the shots and recommending they keep trying. She doesn’t come across as the brightest. I don’t trust anyone who uses that many exclamation marks.
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It appears from skimming the EC regulations that reimporting the animal with a glanders positive is not going to be allowed. While there have been cases that reemerged in Europe, they don’t want it there either. Just because the USDA gave them the option to ship the horse back doesn’t mean it was really feasible. And what about the logistics or putting a positive horse with a mandatory reportable disease on a plane. Any other horse in shipment would be considered a contact animal.
From a purely financial standpoint, they would have been better off to send the horse to any agent that would agree to take the horse on and attempt to resell there or hold for possible reimport to USA. Maybe any of the agents involved in the trainer’s 30+ imports since the seller didn’t want the horse. Worst case they’d probably be out the same money they have spent on the current situation.
But even if there was such an agent, would the EU have let the horse back in? I doubt it. You have to certify that the horse is coming from a place with no cases of the disease in the past 6 months, and the horse needs to be free of the disease to be allowed entry back into the EU. The only hope might be if at this point they consider a 1 score to be negative.
Where did the horse get it? Who knows. But the USDA charts clearly show that even a score of 1 on the CFT with a negative WB isn’t going to get the horse released.
So, if they do an autopsy and can’t find any lesions consistent with the disease, then what? Do they think they have a case against the government? I don’t really see any liability for the destruction of the horse on the part of the USDA for following its established protocols even if the care and way things were handled could have been better.
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Erm… the owner (mom of the girl the horse is for) commented in the trainer’s post on FB so I went to her (mom’s) FB. The exclamation marks… they are not limited to the trainer.
Also, mom has apparently been both emailing and trying to tweet at President Trump about this vast injustice. I can’t even.
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They were advised to get a lawyer about 175 posts ago. It seems to me that some (trainer, maybe even OP?) believe that stirring up a social media frenzy will get this resolved. Lesson for all: imports can be tricky and go bad fast, and outrage from equestrian peers will not topple the USDA.
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Oh my, some of the comments on the trainer’s facebook post are scary. Comparing this to the government killing kids who have a vaccine reaction.
On Facebook the trainer is saying they have an attorney.
Edit to add - They have started a go fund me too.
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Oh god… yep I’m starting to get a better picture of how this turned into such a mess.
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Attorney Chapman Hopkins is the “go to guy” for this kind of thing and last year he told me he has never seen a true positive case of Glanders when the western blot came back negative.
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What a mess. That dream has certainly become a nightmare, both financially and emotionally. My heart goes out to the family involved. I have a terrible vision of a family placing a mortgage on their home, or dipping into retirement or education funds to cover this. Poor horse, what impact upon him, both mental and physical? Poor kid, even if horse is released, the path to competition will be a long one.
That being said, I support the USDA. They have followed the current policy and procedure related to suspect Glanders. They have stuck to the process, and taken the stand that is expected of them in this situation. It is their job to draw the hard line, no matter what push back occurs, that is why they are there. Moving forward, I expect that policy and procedure will be reviewed to assure it reflects the best practice and is in keeping with current science.
In regards to limiting communication to one contact/spokesperson, I think is very reasonable. Imagine the challenges presented when a group of resourceful and assertive individuals start seeking information, wish to be “helpful” by citing the policy and procedure of another country, inform agents of a study they have read and wish to discuss. Fire will rain from the sky, should an agent misspeak, or utter one word out of place. Not saying this happened, but there is always the potential for the added stress of “I want you to know I am recording this conversation for later use by my lawyer”. I have been on the receiving end during a somewhat similar, but unrelated situation. Multiple contacts each day, each requiring a lengthy, time consuming response where you can spend 30 minutes saying you have no new information to provide. Then, field multiple phone calls from other professionals the family has reached out to. Staff who tell you “dealing with them is above my pay grade, this one is yours”. Oh, and don’t forget, all other work demands are still there. I eventually learned. I found the best way to deal with these situations is to have the family choose one spokesperson, and schedule communication with that person each day. End those conversations with a closer similar to: “Let’s talk again tomorrow at 10 a.m. I will call you to provide any updates, and will take your questions at that time”.
Again, I feel deeply for both the family and the horse, but how would you like to be the USDA staffer?
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Literally one of the mom’s comments (when advised to contact Trump): “I have been sending emails daily & trying to send him tweets-something that I am very new to doing! I would love to be able to find a back door to get him a message”
Oh hey anyone by any chance got a direct backdoor to the President of the United States? I’d like to talk to him about a horse!
Holy moly.
I really do hope the test today is negative and the poor animal is released and has a nice life with Gabby, and this will someday be a good hair-raising tale to tell at horsey events. But honestly… holy moly.
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…But make sure you ask questions first. Most equine agents/carriers offer a territorial extension/transit coverage that extends a normal USA horse mortality policy to cover a horse outside the US or Canada. Insurers do this all the time for newly purchased imports or US-based horses competing in Europe. However, most of these specifically exclude losses related to import rejection.
A few equine insurers additionally offer a “frustration of import/export” coverage that is designed specifically for the situation discussed in this thread. I tracked down wording from one insurer’s version of this form, and it specifies the horse must have had the identical infectious disease tests on each side of the trip. I think I read earlier in this thread that the subject horse had different versions of the CFt test in Europe vs. USA. This potentially could have kept coverage from applying even if they had this type of insurance.
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Now I’m curious to see this train wreck on FB. I’m not privy to the names of those involved but it definitely sounds like an interesting…conversation? being had.
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