Yep, this picture is getting clearer and clearer. You can’t expect rational decision making from irrational people.
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Type in Glanders on a search on Facebook. You’ll find it
But could the horse have been sent back? Would the shippers require them to charter the whole plane or not take him at all? Would Europe admit him or Euth him on arrival even if the seller would take him back? Are these people aiming at targets that don’t exist?
Feel bad for them, especially the kid, and would feel just as sorry for the child of a brain surgeon or welder. It sucks. But there’s reasons it is happening. Nobody randomly singled them out to get screwed in this.
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Let’s hope it’s enough time for the horse to fight off whatever it was fighting that may have been causing a positive ping. I’m sure the USDA vet is hoping for same.
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If there is a lesson here, don’t spend more on a horse than you can afford to lose. That’s sound whether you’re buying from next door or across the ocean. Unless a family is rich, this seems an unwise allocation of financial resources to pay tens of thousands for a horse for a child. And this seems especially risky to pay that much on a horse you’ve never seen or ridden and that involves a complicated transAtlantic transfer. Even if the horse has sailed through import, it could have turned out lame, badly trained, unsuitable. I think the trainer/family are presenting this as “losing the perfect horse for no reason.” Sadly, they gambled with money they couldn’t afford to lose and were unlucky.
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IMO opinion, the horse should absolutely not be released unless both tests are negative. If the USDA tests for something, we do not want it in this country.
If he can’t be shipped back, then he should be put down. The horse doesn’t know a better life might be waiting; he only knows he’s stuck in a stall with little human contact and that can’t be a happy situation for him.
I feel bad for the family, but they need to think of the horse’s needs above their own desires.
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I could see them not pursuing that avenue because if the horse is going to potentially get put down either way and they expect it doesn’t actually have the disease. They may be able to prove it via already mentioned autopsy and there could be a pretty penny coming out of a law suit after that could get their money back.
Again,COULD he have been sent back even if they had been able to pay or is the trainer mistaken in claiming that? Lots of emotional statements, hard to determine what the actual regs on both sides are in regards to this unfortunate situation.
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Why are people so hostile towards this family? Someone suggested she contact Trump (which i agree is nuts), but they are desperate and have been put in a very hard situation. Dealing with the government, even if the USDA is following protcol, can be a nightmare. I also thought these FB posts interesting and giving the family some credibility as to the lack of info:
- Kama Godek I had a horse fly in JFK the week of thanksgiving this year which was held for a neutral result of glanders (recently gelded). I also had a different horse fly in October which was held 14 days at $300/day because another horse was piro positive on his flight, mine was pre-tested (which from THE LIMITED INFO I RECEIVED the piro positive horse was NOT pre-tested before boarding! And they sent back!) but each owner on the flight had to pay for their own extended stays (even though we all had pretested....) there seems to be some huge issues was USDA this year .... feel free to message me privately for more info 1 Hide or report this [LIST]
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Kama Godek I just sent you a friend request to send you a pm. One of my horse owners (who’s imported several horses with me) is a lobbiest in dc and very influential. She saw what I went through with a few of mine which were imported this fall and how it effected me. She might have some ideas of who to talk to. My heart breaks for you. The run around we got from the gov’t was rediculous and not being about to see them behind closed doors is infuriating. They were never able to explain to me why it cost me $300/day x 15 days x all the horses on our flight…
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The trainer very easily could be mistaken with that. But I did see a comment that made me wonder. Is a positive result here considered a positive result over there, since the tests are different (and presumably the test they use found the horse negative and the one we use found the horse positive)? I do not know nearly enough about importing horses or diseases to even guess at that.
That is also true. The trainer has, multiple times, outright stated that the horse would be returned to be SOLD in Europe, so she at least does not believe the horse will be euthanized (not that that means anything). A lawsuit never occurred to me. I’m not sure how that would go, although it may start a path towards the USA using the same test as Europe.
My question: what legal action might be sought? The USDA is following the import algorithm as it is clearly spelled out. When you choose to import, and the guideline has been followed, what are you claiming?
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Some comments on this thread are very disappointing.
I have been hesitant to post, as I interact with the USDA and FDA for work.
I am not with the USDA on this, and I firmly believe in protecting other equids.
The protocol for the USDA using CFT =0 is out of date with the current research on the specificity of both CFT and WB. Germany tests by WB in the presence of a positive CFT and releases if WB is negative and CFT is below a certain number (I believe that is still current).
There are multiple bacteria that can cause a false positive for glanders, as they have similar sequences and are in the same family.
The actual reading of the test, the dilutions can all impact the accuracy of CFT- which is why WB is an excellent confirmatory test.
As someone in a science industry, with advanced degrees in molecular (though specialize in virology and oncology) I am disappointed in the procedures. I am not aware of how often they look at their protocols, but it seems they are not up to date.
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Jesus.
My biggest question in all of this is: A) how criminal is it that daily board fees for quarantine are $375 and B ) how even more criminal is it that at any time, they can suddenly quadruple the price and you’re essentially stuck paying it?
I’m gobsmacked. I know importing isn’t cheap and I know there are a lot of extra steps and policies etc involved with having a quarantine facility - but it costs me $25/day to board at my very nice, reputable vet hospital whenever I have issues with a horse (Weems & Stephens). 4x that? Sure. 8x that? Ehh… $1,200 dollars a day?! GTFO.
I’m sad for the poor horse; obviously we don’t want Glanders in the US so I don’t think any rational person disagrees with the USDA for holding a horse that is coming back positive on a test. But I’m gobsmacked any “average” person can afford to import anything when those are the daily prices and your contract (I assume) allows them to change fees on a whim. It seems to me that the daily board fees are what is driving this to the probably sad conclusion, and my jaw is on the floor.
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Thank you for posting. I am honestly surprised there aren’t more false positives or maybe we don’t hear about them? Since shipping can bring out illnesses in horses, it is terrible that this test is used in the USA when it isn’t super specific for the bacteria that causes glanders.
As for the owners and trainer, I haven’t been on FB. But jeez, they are doing the best they can after being thrown into a super sh!tty and unforeseen situation.
I feel awful for the owners and the horse. His life has been crap here in the USA. Jingling hard that he pulls off a negative test on Thursday.
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I’m jingling like mad for the horse and his people for clear test results!
What a horrific situation, my heart is breaking for all involved.
I don’t know anything about glanders, but I have an inquiring mind and consequently…I have questions.
Hypothetically, if the horse did have an exposure, what is the incubation period? After 7 weeks, would the horse be showing symptoms or full blown illness? What would the treatment protocol be…aside from euthanasia? Would the antibiotics help or sort of mask glanders?
Aside from the test results, 7 weeks seems like a long time to not show active illness…but again, I have no knowledge.
Thank you!
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Incubation period seems to vary, but is an average of 2 weeks.
Who knows how these things happen really if he does have a glanders infection. Other than somewhere somehow he became exposed and possibly the stress of the travel worsened the response. A friend of mine imported one who somehow developed EIA after release from quarantine but before horse made it to the final destination. Of course it had been tested pre- and post- import. Had to be put down. And notice given to all the horses it had been around and surely extra expense for those owners too. Sometimes stuff happens. Could also have a terrible problem come up with the horse you buy from down the street!
I saw a post by a sales agent abroad who offered to take the horse and try to resell for the people. Offered to help with the paperwork. Even if he could have gone back, now their excuse is they couldn’t afford to send him back to then take a hit on expenses there and reselling… but as of now they get nothing back. This seems a little… odd.
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An Elisa test. can pick it up as early as 3 days post infection- again- care has to be taken for false positives (and negatives). I don’t know why they can’t confirm via PCR - which they will most likely do at necropsy if there is nothing on pathology) . There are 3 forms of glanders- most cases result in death, a few can be carriers. This is why the abundance of caution- but There are specific rRNA gene sequences for identification.
Unfortunately since this is not the protocol- they can’t deviate. The USDA should look at their protocols, as this is not the first false positive.
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The horse was tested on the cELISA in late November and was negative.
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Complementary ELISAs are very specific. Shame on the USDA for not having a back up procedure, as everyone in the laboratory industry knows that this happens. WB and PCR are the best confirmatory or exclusionary tests.
I am sorry to the family and contacts. This is a tragedy. I hope the CFT is 0 this go around.
best of luck.
https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/sagacious-hf-remains-in-quarantine-after-positive-glanders-test
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I would have never ever imagined that the import could cost an unexpected $30-$50k on top of the planned fees and not even yield a horse. Never in a zillion years. I don’t think the family did anything wrong and I’m sorry they were the “winner” of this very bad luck anti-lottery.
Watching this unfold has been really awful and I don’t think I would have chosen differently. Not realistic to send him back, and the euth itself is ungodly expensive. (Honestly, if there’s a clear change I’d make in the law it would be that a biohazard euth is at USDA expense. It happens so rarely, one hopes, and much fairer to spread the risk of that against every horse imported than to expect a single importer to pay it.)
I also think that if I were 7 weeks into this situation I would no longer be terribly rational or calm. Holy moley.
USDA is not able to say their side but this is a very serious disease, and regulations like this that are in statute cannot just be changed. They have to follow the law, and sometimes the law doesn’t properly imagine the situations at hand. But in general, USDA always values the larger population over individual animals, something we see in policy again and again. For such a serious disease, I can’t say that’s wrong. But it also looks like we need a way to update to use the best tests available.
Constituent services are a thing to help people with the government - and every senator and house member has staff devoted to that. That’s where you go for help.
Best wishes to the kid, who did nothing wrong, and I hope she is able to find a kind and satisfying equine partner after all this.
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