This is so true. I own a registered QH who does not look typical. He is much more refined, with a long neck and legs. He’s not heavily muscled and not built downhill. Judges at dressage shows guessed he was a TB or WB cross. He is a really nice mover. If the OP could find a stallion with the characteristics like my horse, it would be a consideration.
4 Likes
My filly will look like a heavy built TB when she is done growing. I doubt that anyone will ever guess that she is registered AQHA. She is a taller version of her TB momma with more bone, which is what I was looking for when I bred.
5 Likes
It wouldn’t surprise me if there aren’t a fair number of QHs and crosses out there, who lost their QH heritage and possibly papers showing it. A friend of mine used to sell some nice QHs to hunter trainers who never took their papers with them. I’m sure many became TB crosses.
9 Likes
Late to this thread, but I ride two WB/QH crosses regularly.
One is basically the perfect lesson horse that you can trust a beginner on and while he isn’t fast, can turn on a dime and still clean up in low level jumpers (he’s older and limited to under 2’6 now). Apparently he used to be pretty spooky, but is generally very sweet and even keeled. He also doesn’t look at all QH to me.
The other is my lease horse. I love him dearly, but he definitely didn’t win the genetic lottery. Weak coupling, long back, long ewe neck, only slightly downhill, at least? Also has a nice booty. Definitely an example of what can go wrong with breeding (his owner and I joke that someone’s stallion got loose and he was an oops baby). The QH is also strong in him (though I think he also had some western training), he’s generally got a low head set and he has the flattest, easiest jog in the world to sit, which makes him lovely for trail rides and puttering around. And his canter is much nicer than you would think it would be to look at him. He’s a mess, but he’s super sweet and mostly willing and has a good brain and is only spooky about green tractors. No chance he’d ever win anything in hunters or jumpers, but he’s sensible and good for what I want to do (we did win an in-house eq class!) and the rider I am at this time, which means he’s perfect, even though he’s definitely not a great example of WB/QH crosses.
3 Likes
You can get some really poor WB x TB crosses, WB x Arabian, WB x WB crosses, all acceptable and common crosses, simply by using animals who shouldn’t have been produced, and who shouldn’t be reproducing.
IMHO you’re more likely to see poor crosses with WB x any breed who doesn’t have a breeding approval process, only a registration process, than breeding 2 horses who ARE approved in some way that has to do with conformation and/or performance, even if they’re fairly different in type
1 Like
So some breeds of horse are very “typey” and if you cross with them, they will generally resemble the typey parent. That can apply to Friesians, Arabs and Iberians if you cross with TB, QH or WB. Also draft horses.
QH is a closed breed registry except for adding TB via appendix, but there are so many different types with the QH umbrella that you really need to look at the horse in front of you. Also at the pedigree, to see if the phenotype of this horse is likely to line up with the genotype.
The WB registries are more open, but many have inspections. They tend to allow a lot of TB blood. But there are a number of different body types among the European WB population. And the North American WB and Sport Horse registries are often a bit looser on what can be included.
People love a WB stallion that is prepotent, that means stamps his offspring in his likeness. I think this would be due to him having a more homozygous genetic structure.
Phenotype doesn’t always reflect genotype. In humans where we tend to marry completely unrelated people for emotional reasons, you can have a family where one child looks like mom, one child looks like dad, and one child looks like a grandparent or aunt. The red hair or the characteristic nose that skips a generation! That’s fun in a family. It’s the opposite of what you want in breeding sport horses.
So when you are breeding horses, you won’t necessarily get a blend of the two animals you see in front of you. You will get a blend of the entire parental line of the two horses. We don’t have genetic tests for specific characteristics other than color (still has limits) and some inheritable diseases.
That’s why people line breed, to make the genetic transmission more homozygous.
Draft x TB are a great example of what a wide variety of offspring can result.
5 Likes
I have read the other replies and I really don’t think would be a bad idea IF:
The cross would compliment the best of both horses in question?
I mean we have all seen the breeding matches that just don’t work out and some of those are the same breeds crossed. You take a chance no matter what.
If you start out with 2 horses with similar builds that you can see them both bringing the best to the possible match I would.
Many " grade" horses are really lovely in movement, disposition and build but just don’t look for one to improve on the flaws of the other. Start with 2 nice ones who really don’t need improving.
1 Like
How is that if they are different types?
1 Like
What do you mean?
WB’s are big bodied and so are most QH’s ? A Quarter Horse with nice movement, good bone and even temperament would add a lot.
While they are different “types” I don’t see an issue that would arise like if you bred 2 drastically different breeds.
1 Like
Substance isn’t the same as being similar type. A reining bred QH (which the OP was considering) will have a very different throatlatch, length of neck, shoulder angle, neck tie in placement, heart girth, coupling, hindquarters, etc, etc, etc. It isn’t as simple as big + big = coherent athletic cross.
12 Likes
Big difference in roping horses and reining horses ( in size and conformation traits) at least from my past experience and I admit it has been a while and maybe they have changed things?
Like I said above the 2 horses would need to have conformation that compliments the other and that is not unheard of in a QH to have the desired qualities she is needing.
There is really no info on the stud the OP is thinking of. I wasn’t giving advice for her to breed to that stud but just saying the WB/ QH cross can work out well if you have the right pairing. I’ve known a few.
2 Likes
A 17h WB who weighs 1500lb and a 60" long girth and 80" blanket (my personal WB), is not remotely the same body type as a 15h QH who also weighs 1500lb and wears an 86" blanket.
The modern halter-bred QH isn’t a drastically different breed from the WB, not like, say, the Icelandic pony is drastically different. But breeding that QH to a WB is not a good idea. Ever.
this is the deal right here. We know nothing about the QH in question to even know if he should be contributing to the gene pool. The mare either. Temperament is great, it needs to be considered, and a mediocre conformed horse with great temperament has a better chance at a nice life, than the best conformed horse who is just a nutcase. But the best temperament can’t outrun truly non-functional conformation for a good “using horse”
2 Likes
If you are looking for a great brain, I would recommend using a Knabstrupper. This way you keep the WB movement and have options to register the foal in a main book once she is approved for breeding.
Picture of my Knabstrupper stallion
9 Likes
There are QH’s who are over 16h and not built like a halter horse. I had a fellow boarder with a Reg QH who was at least 17 hands, uphill build and fluid movement and he excelled in both english and western pleasure classes.
I will say I have no idea if the AQHA allows TB in the pedigree but a horse like hers would be a nice cross with a WB.
Would be my choice @Nootka 
2 Likes
Of course. My point was that “WB’s are big bodied and so are most QH’s” has nothing to do with body type. My comment pointed that out - 1500lb and 15h is “big bodied” and so is 17h and 1500lb, but if that 15h horse is a Halter horse, and the 17h is a WB they are not at all the same body type
They do, and have for a long time. QH x TB is and has been called an Appendix, until that horse gets his ROM and can get full QH papers
Those TBs are how they have 17h QHs. Most HUS horses are at least half, if not more, TB.
8 Likes
Gotcha.
Her horse might have been one of those then. I don’t remember her saying he was an appendix though but if they can show at AQHA shows why would she.
Right but this poster specifically was talking about crossing her mare with a Reiner who was “more level than most”. So a 14.3-15.2 downhill to level QH crossed with a WB is still too disparate types and unlikely to result in a smaller but still WB type movement in a level to uphill build.
2 Likes
Either saying “he’s a QH” was easier, or he WAS a QH either because both parents were fully papered QHs or he was an Appendix (QH x TB) who got his QH papers due to ROM.
I wouldn’t have a problem with a level 14.3 Reiner who has good conformation (for a horse, not simply a reiner). Lots of WBs are bred to GRPs who are also pony sized, so the height difference here isn’t an issue.
1 Like
The thing with QH’s these days is that there are so many phenotypes. The halter horses are so different from the HUS horses that are so different from the Ranch Bred horses, which are different from the cutting horses, which are different from the reining horses, different from roping horses. They all have different jobs and the conformation that is desired for one job isn’t desired for another job. Do people even ride the halter horses? One QH person said no, their hind end was so straight you really did not want to. I saw a lovely moving one at the vet a few days ago. Obviously a quality animal. Could be a HUS but built more uphill and did not move in that peanut roller way. That one might have been a nice cross although she had feet issues and rather straight pasterns.
4 Likes
She was writing about a ROPING horse, not a REINER. Normally two different horses, though some might do both. Depending on the roper, they can be not downhill. We haven’t seen pictures of him to tell either way.
6 Likes
