Yes, they are, that is why I used the term “widespread”. I’ll see if I can find the article. It was concerning one of the heavy horse breeds that were/are bred for meat being at risk of disappearing, due to the reduced demand for horsemeat and the increase in the slaughter of horses not purposely bred for meat.
The novice breeder of a 17 year old Clyde mare who wants a performance horse (dressage) needs to take much into consideration. There are an awful lot of “ifs”.
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About 15 years ago we visited the Haras du Pin in Normandy. The had stallions of various French breeds, with descriptive placards in both French and English. I am no longer fluent in French, but I could make out the gist of it. The French placard for the Percheron said that they were primarily bred for farm work and for providing meat for human consumption. The English placard made no mention of meat.
I can imagine it didn’t! :lol:
The article was about one of the French breeds. The Boulonnais? Of course it was a few years ago (and I can’t remember what I had for dinner last night) so I don’t remember where I read it.
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Of course, which is why I listed the ones that came to the top of my head. Novice breeder or not, those are all considerations for anyone. Many professionals don’t want to, or have the means to breed, or raise a foal to riding age, even if they are willing to buy the un-started 3yo.
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The horse the OP is talking about is a proven mare producing animals that the OP likes from a family that produces animals that the OP likes. It is a fairly common successful cross.
The issue of breeding foals is always an adventure and there aren’t guarantees but some of these responses seem like boilerplate rather than thoughtful responses to the specifics of the situation.
If the OP just wants another riding horse, the cheapest and easiest solution is of course to buy one when ready. Raising a baby is expensive and takes time, and you might not get what you want when you want it. It also is worth considering taking in the mare as a pet and still buying what you want, mull that over and feel what your reaction to that is. Are you going to be happy to still have this mare when you have your one foal? But maybe you really like the mare and want the experience of breeding - then figure out if you can handle the cost and contingencies and wait and training and the rest and if this is the direction you want to go.
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Possibly the Boulonnais. A gorgeous draft horse, but to be blunt if the French didn’t eat horse meat it would be long extinct. Some of the genuine draft breeds may survive as people recognize that draft animal power is a useful niche power source in agriculture, forestry, and oddly some urban applications; but it is a race between utility, numbers, and time. The horse meat industry in France and Belgium may end up being the saving grace for breeds like the Boulonnais, Brabrant, and Ardennes.
Another example is the Suffolk, which is an English breed (so no market for horse meat there): in the US it is gaining niche recognition due to an incredibly devout, even rabid, group of breeders. If it survives, it will be because of that. In comparison, I suspect the Clyde and Shire will gradually go the way of the Irish Draught and the Cleveland Bay: gradually cross breeding for riding will extinguish the bloodlines that were heavy draught.
To be clear, I find the idea of eating horse utterly horrific…but I can see how it may, bizarrely, help save some breeds.
That all said, I think the OP’s cross is a reasonable one!
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The mare has produced 5 foals and the OP has an 8 year old out of this mare’s dam. It doesn’t seem like that wildly irresponsible of a decision to me. It’s not like she’s saying “should I hop on craigslist, purchase a maiden Clyde, and then breed it to a backyard ‘WB’”. She owns a horse out of this mare’s dam and seems interested in doing a WBx. Even if it comes out looking like a dump truck, if she puts a solid foundation on it someone will be glad to have it as a husband horse or pleasure horse. A lack of basic ground manners and a solid foundation of W/T/C puts a horse at far greater risk of entering the slaughter pipeline than anything else.
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Hey,
Just to clear up a few things.
I’m not a novice breeder, I spent the majority of my 20s breeding and competing jumpers prior to injury. I am new to the world of draft/dressage breeding though.
The foal would have a home with me for life even if it comes out looking like a six legged giraffe. I adore this mare and really enjoyed riding her prior to her breeding career.
The mare has an older full sister that has tbX and tb/wbX youngsters competing at SH and jumpers as 7/8/9yos.
The mares other half clyde siblings are doing all sorts of things, from my boy doing dressage, to a gelding by a tb sire doing eventing and another hunting.
This mares lines were bred for the last 5 gen by the same guy and they were bred to be riding horses not to pull so he has been avoiding clyde lines with conformation issues and most of the horses he has sold have gone to riding homes.
I am booked to get the head of my local wb registry to look at her this weekend and give me some advice on what I should be looking for in a sire. But from what ive heard im probably looking for a sire with a high percentage of tb?
(Ironically there’s no tb for 3 gen in my boys sire line yet he feels light to me lol)
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What is your local Warmblood registry? Since you are not a novice breeder (you’ve spent the majority of 10 years breeding jumpers?), what exactly are you are asking? TB vs Warmblood to cross with the Clyde mare hoping for a dressage prospect?
You are still riding your 8yr old in dressage and he is doing well and you want another like him. Yes?
My local registry is hanno, im hoping she’ll be able to give me some general tips on ruby’s conformation and ideas on stallions.
if you refer back to my original post I asked for advice on potentially suitable stallions. I’m not familiar to dressage breeding lines(besides my boys line) and unfortunately the sire of my boy passed away so I can’t breed back to him which would’ve been ideal. ðŸ˜
Well I think that in the case of the OP specifically, I see no problem with her plans to breed this mare. As others have pointed out, this mare has already proven herself to be a good broodmare with several solid individuals on the ground (and she herself is rideable) and with the OP seeking advice from breeders etc…I think she is, so far, doing everything right IMO
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Most people will want to see the mare in question, before suggesting suitable sires.
That being said, since you know the “cross” worked, I’d find a son of Rubenstein or even breed to him directly. Lots of nice sons of his - I’m partial to Rotspon, but I would not breed him on a heavy mare. Rascalino is another very nice Rubenstein son with some incredible (amateur friendly too) horses on the ground, and Rascalino seems to be very typey on old fashioned mares.
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I like the Clyde/TB crosses I have bred and bought. They have done well in open competition, very successful horses. I tend to like the clyde bred down to only a 1/4 rather than a half, but half can be OK too. There is always risk involved with any plan to breed a mare, nothing is “for sure” to produce the superstar you are looking for. Anyone who thinks they have no risk involved hasn’t been doing it for long. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Disaster happens. Those who are looking for a “sure thing” should buy a mature, broke and trained horse, and even that isn’t guaranteed success. That’s horses for ya. Those who want the thrill and risk of breeding their own mount, must make up their own mind what they like, and what they want to do, and accept the risk involved. That is what happens in a “free country”. OP, follow your heart, and hope for the best. Nothing is guaranteed. I’d look for a TB stallion, but that’s me, I’m a TB person. If you go warmblood, look for a refined one. Good luck!
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