I’m glad you think a four is acceptable, because I promise you at the end of six months of active breeding on multiple mares with little to no support, that would be a three.
Four is not acceptable, no matter how much lipstick you dress on it.
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It’s actually just fine. I don’t think there’s an AC in the country that would seize on that alone.
If this is the same horse in the picture on the gofund me, he appears much thinner in that photo.
I know you’ve got a lot of emotion tied in here. Perhaps Joyride should be gelded so he and you don’t have to stress about such things. Surely he’s been through enough in his lifetime.
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I think y’all are being a bit rough on tempichange. She knows her stallion. If he’s being used for live cover on a lot of mares, or is just a horse that frets weight off through the breeding season, he may be too thin in his current condition.
(and I do have a friend who gelded her Morgan stallion in his mid teens for precisely this reason. He had sired 75 foals - a lot in the tiny Morgan world - and it was very hard to keep weight on him during breeding season. He’s now a happy member of the herd, having lost his studdy behavior along with his balls. Unfortunately, she lost all the frozen she had for him around the same time.)
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I hate the body score designations because it does not determine if a horse is a very fit jumper, racehorse, etc. and then considered a 4 on the scale. Or if it just plain skinny, lacking muscle and body fat and is a 4. I would never want one of my horses to be a skinny “4”. And I would never ride a horse that is a skinny “4” - who thinks it is a good idea to have a saddle sitting on backbone. And I don’t think I would want a breeding stallion to be going into breeding season with a body score of 4. Ditto a broodmare.
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Joyride could very well have been a “3” prior to relocating to the current facility. Lisa knew she’d be faced with court orders to disclose his whereabouts and, as @tempichange posted, probably spent the last 3+ weeks stuffing him full of calories to get weight on him.
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Record the judgment with the county and you can send the sheriff to her place of work and garnish her wages if she has a W2 job; you can get her tax refunds; and the repo people will also go around with plate scanners and if her license plate pops up they’ll take the car, sell it at auction, and get you paid.
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I’m sure that’s the case.
And a body score of 4 is perfectly acceptable.
5 is ideal.
A bit lean is healthier for horses than fat.
Of course breeding stock have different considerations.
Perhaps not breeding a horse not in optimal condition for breeding is the best answer.
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Go look up Pics of Joyride when he was under Kelly’s care and compare it to the current photograph of his condition and then come back and comment. I know someone who is getting 2 mares and 3 offspring back out of this clusterf*ck. One of the mares is ribs and bones.
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No the horse that appear in the GoFundMe is dead. This a different horse.
As I don’t have possession of the horse I cannot make that judgment or decision. If it were up to me he would be gelded.
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I’m gobsmacked at the folks who are singling out the BC of 4 as a means of seemingly dismissing that there is any legitimate concern for Joyride’s welfare.
In terms of his health status there is more going on than the raw body condition score:
Joyride is a body score of four and a topline condition score of C-. He has not been vaccinated nor has dental been done. He has a worm count of over 1000. He potentially has pigeon fever (currently has an abscess on his chest that is not caused by trauma), and with the outbreak of EHV-1, is at high risk. Per the vet’s advice he should not be breeding, and definitely needs have his issues addressed thoroughly to assure his health
Additionally, he is in the custody of someone who has recently been arrested for neglect, had a very large number of horses seized a few months ago, purportedly has many more horses sequestered away in unknown locations, has a history of severe neglect of horses including of horses owned by others, has refused to reveal the location of horses owned by others that were entrusted to her care, has spent YEARS hiding from owners and from legal authorities, etc.
FWIW, hoarder type neglectors like LD often have some horses in much better condition than others. It’s part of their pathology to treat some horses better than the others. That some horses are in decent to really good condition is part of how they convince their supporters (and in some cases delude themselves) that they are not at fault for the poor condition of the others.
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She has been self employed for the last 10 years according to her bankruptcy statements. I doubt that she will attempt to find employment. She hasn’t bothered for the last three years.
A horse can gain a lot of weight in 3 weeks . . . in knowing of a similar situation many years ago, the person involved hid animals for a time and did their best to get them in better condition before they were inspected. The fact that Joyride’s hooves were being done on the day the inspection happened, and that lower profile horses were found in worse shape, makes this seem that it could possibly be the same type situation IMO.
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For crying out loud people. I just commented on his body condition. I didn’t say anything about anything else related to this case or the people involved.
ALL I SAID is that he doesn’t look very skinny. Which he doesnt. Which IS A GOOD THING.
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People love strawmen, cause virtue.
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I am glad you still feel a four is adequate. You are also correct AC will not seize on it. However it’s not a good place to be nor is it or should be acceptable.
The problem wasn’t you saying something but your lack of it on other details. The horse is unwell, in care of a known hoarder and who starved others. He hasn’t been taken care of for sometime.
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Cool story. He isn’t emaciated. That’s good. I know you hate this woman, and for good reason. But don’t lose the forest for the trees.
ETA: if anyone breeds this horse again, it’s going to show what they were REALLY after, and it wasn’t the well being of Joyride. He’s done enough, wouldn’t you say?
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Are you presuming that I would continue his stallion career if he were to come to me?
You, your friend, anyone.
This horse has been through enough.
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Let’s be perfectly honest, I’m not in the business of producing horses for the sake of producing horses.
Outside of present condition, he is very behind in training, and is not a candidate for any legit approval process.
So yes, in my case, as I have said before on this thread, he would be gelded. If he were to be seized and sold at public auction to a third party I would offer to pay for it, and disclose any medical records I had on the horse.
So while you may think this is some cash cow grab on a horse, it isn’t. He legitimately is not well, should not be in this condition, and frankly she needs to find help.
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I haven’t read the entire thread. What breed is Joyride, and what is it about him that makes him a candidate for breeding “up to 200 mares”? Does he have a stellar pedigree and solid performance record? Is he approved by high quality registries (if he is standing for WB breeding)? And since WB breeders are mostly doing AI and not live cover, I am having trouble wrapping my brain around the notion that he is could get more than a half-dozen mares a year at best (unless they are all owned by “the hoarder”).
That said, I am so glad he has been found and is not in such horrible condition that his life is in imminent danger. I hope he lands softly with someone who will give him good care for the rest of his life. And I hope there is some way to legally prevent “the hoarder” from acquiring more horses (although those types of people are like child molesters - they never stop, they just move elsewhere and continue as before).
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