FYI, this is also happening with Eqvalan Gold, which is Merial’s Canadian equivalent of ZG
[QUOTE=Laurierace;8223721]
While I agree it should be changed, you don’t need deep pockets to buy Equimax instead and be done with it. It is more or less the same price. Keep being the voice of change but protect your horses by not buying it in the meantime.[/QUOTE]
Yes, talk with your wallet. Don’t think Merial full well knows what’s going on, and that they are also fully aware that nobody has the $$ to take them on. As long as people continue to buy it, they have no incentive to change a thing, which requires lots of time and $$.
But if they realize sales are totally in the tank, they will (hopefully) either just take it off the market or, hopefully as well, remake the formulation to remove the problem.
[QUOTE=JB;8223724]
FYI, this is also happening with Eqvalan Gold, which is Merial’s Canadian equivalent of ZG[/QUOTE]
Thanks for pointing this out !! Much appreciated !!
[QUOTE=JB;8223724]
FYI, this is also happening with Eqvalan Gold, which is Merial’s Canadian equivalent of ZG[/QUOTE]
Yup. I’m always surprised when I run into people that haven’t heard about the issues with ZG/Eqvalan.
I wish the OP was getting more support. She wants to get this product off the market by making some noise. The reason it is still on the market is because we have obviously not been active enough. Hats off to her. This is a terrible product and should not be on the market. The reactions are common and although I have never used that product, it seems like the mouth ulcers would be painful. If I were going to take a stand, I might try my state’s animal cruelty laws (although poor old Texas is not very advanced in that area).
You “don’t have deep pockets” but you want to go after Merial IN COURT?!
Focus your efforts on getting the people who supply it to stop selling it. Start a petition to get Dover to stop carrying it. Or Valley Vet. Or Jeffers. Or ANY big supplier! Target one first, and then go after more.
Merial may start to pay attention if their larger sellers start saying no. Unlikely they’ll even think twice about your Facebook page. Unlikely it will even even turn up on their radar with the spelling error.
[QUOTE=Simkie;8223799]
You “don’t have deep pockets” but you want to go after Merial IN COURT?!
Focus your efforts on getting the people who supply it to stop selling it. Start a petition to get Dover to stop carrying it. Or Valley Vet. Or Jeffers. Or ANY big supplier! Target one first, and then go after more.
Merial may start to pay attention if their larger sellers start saying no. Unlikely they’ll even think twice about your Facebook page. Unlikely it will even even turn up on their radar with the spelling error.[/QUOTE]
Oops you made a grammatical error…
Now yes you have excellent ideas regarding contacting suppliers to stop carrying the product and I thank you for that. But despite how much money you think is appropriate to fight for what’s right, we will continue.
The most likely reason Merial hasn’t changed the formula is they CAN’T. Once the FDA grants a product approval absolutely no changes the formula are allowed (raw materials, suppliers of any ingredients, etc.). Merial would have to resubmit as if it was a totally new product which would cost BIG bucks.
It seems odd to me that the carrier used for ZG causes a problem like this. To my naked eye the carrier paste looks exactly the same as what’s used in Gastrogard. However, without a chemical analysis, who knows?
I was boarding at a large show barn (maybe 40-50 horses at any time). ZG was used on all of these horses when it first came out due to the barn vets recommendation. There weren’t any reactions. I continued using it after leaving that barn to a smaller, less stressful place. Still no reaction.
Switched to Equimax when that came out, not because of a problem with ZG but because the amount of ivermectin is higher. That and I love the black horse on the packaging. LOL!
[QUOTE=Simkie;8223507]
I switched to Equimax, which doesn’t carry these risks. I think it’s crazy that Merial had left the product on the market as is, but it’s easy enough to avoid and reports of these reactions are so easy to turn up with a modicum of due diligence. [/QUOTE]
Not really. A Google search turns up nothing but links to buy the product (TSC, SmartPak, Valley Vet, etc.) in the first two pages. Two results on the third page are “Has your horse colicked after using Zimecterin Gold?” and “Zimecterin Gold THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT…” which in the small print preview mentions a “bad reaction.”
None of the top search strings suggested when you enter ZG in the search bar are particularly alarming. One is “recall” and one is “side effects,” but that’s much more pedestrian than “nasty chemical burns.”
Unless you’ve already heard about the issue, a cursory search isn’t going to alert you. And the stuff has a 5 star rating from 129 SmartPak reviewers, 4 star from 22 more, and only two one-star reviews that describe swollen mouths and ulcerated gums.
And most people that have a history of using the product with no adverse effects aren’t going to stop until they see it with their own eyes.
I’ve always used Equimax.
I just submitted a negative review on SmarkPak’s website. We’ll see if it’s posted.
There are already two negative reviews for the product. It might be helpful if people clicked that the negative reviews are helpful. Here’s the link:
https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/zimecterin-gold-1661
Unfortunately many owners who’s horses have had a bad reaction do nothing to notify the company or others. Why? I think part of the reason is they have been told “their horse” is allergic, just had a bad reaction, yadda, yadda.
I commend those and OP for continuing to try and get this product off the market.
Keep on keepin on.
Side effects listed on the product insert sheet.
http://www.drugs.com/pro/zimecterin-gold.html
I’m sure the legal team at Merial has been up all night worrying about this!
.
[QUOTE=Warmblood369;8223361]
Their warning does little to describe the actual reactions and this is only what we can see externally. If a lot of vets don’t recommend using it, we as equine caregivers need to keep it from harming other horses. Do you use it? Be supportive… !! It’s not a suit to gain any monetary compensation other than covering vet bills.[/QUOTE]
Know what? I don’t worm for tapes PERIOD unless it’s on the express orders of a veterinarian, and the VET administers the product. That way the onus is on them if a reaction occurs. My nasty little experience was with QuestPlus, but I’m leery of these others besides, and it now appears not without reason.
While they may sometimes FIND tapes when necropsying a horse, back when these products hit the market there was much skepticism about whether or not they were necessary at all; since colics of anyone below the age of 32 here are vanishingly rare unto nonexistent, I tend to believe this is a product in search of a “problem,” at least under our management conditions.
There are MANY things on the market today for both man and beast which are demonstrably FINE examples of “Type II Malpractice” (doing very well what needn’t be done at all) while creating TONS of “iatrogenic” (medicine-created) REAL problems.
[QUOTE=Pippigirl;8223743]
Yup. I’m always surprised when I run into people that haven’t heard about the issues with ZG/Eqvalan.[/QUOTE]
I hadn’t heard myself. I just used it for the first time in years about 2 weeks ago. No problems at all, thankfully.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8224350]
Know what? I don’t worm for tapes PERIOD unless it’s on the express orders of a veterinarian, and the VET administers the product. That way the onus is on them if a reaction occurs. My nasty little experience was with QuestPlus, but I’m leery of these others besides, and it now appears not without reason.
While they may sometimes FIND tapes when necropsying a horse, back when these products hit the market there was much skepticism about whether or not they were necessary at all; since colics of anyone below the age of 32 here are vanishingly rare unto nonexistent, I tend to believe this is a product in search of a “problem,” at least under our management conditions.
There are MANY things on the market today for both man and beast which are demonstrably FINE examples of “Type II Malpractice” (doing very well what needn’t be done at all) while creating TONS of “iatrogenic” (medicine-created) REAL problems.[/QUOTE]
Your disbelief in the tapeworm issue doesn’t make it not a risk.
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/ileal-impaction-preventable-life-threatening-condition
“Another recent development in our understanding of ileal impaction has been the finding that tapeworms can also cause this type of colic. Fortunately, feeding regimens and de-worming strategies can be adopted to reduce the risk of ileal impaction.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3119239/
“In retrospective studies of acute abdominal disease, ileal impaction has been reported to have a prevalence of 0.5% to 10.8% and accounts for 12% to 42% of all ileal obstructions (1). The exact cause is unknown, but an association with fine, high-roughage forage, Coastal Bermuda hay, and tapeworm infestation (Anoplocephala perfoliata) has been reported”
http://medblog.medlink-uk.net/horseandhoundvetreview/2013/03/07/tapeworm-the-enemy-within/
“Research at the University of Liverpool revealed that 80% of ileal impaction cases and 22% of spasmodic colic cases were due to tapeworms. Ensuring your horse is free of tapeworms will therefore reduce the risk of colic.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9622319
“The aetiological fraction for the ileal impaction data suggests that 81% of the ileal impaction cases in this study were tapeworm associated. This study concludes that A. perfoliata is a significant risk factor for spasmodic colic and ileal impaction colic in the horse; and that the risk of spasmodic colic increases with infection intensity.”
(bold is mine)
I could go on - there are quite a few more studies out there, here in the US and abroad
How in the world can you ignore that?
Why is is such a problem to deworm all horses at least once a year for tapeworms?
I don’t know why your world exists on the basis of “problems don’t exist until a products comes out to solve them.”
For sure, that is sometimes true, but for many, many things, particularly life-threatening issues, that is absolutely not the case.
I guess strongyles were never a problem before commercial dewormers too?
[QUOTE=candyappy;8224367]
I hadn’t heard myself. I just used it for the first time in years about 2 weeks ago. No problems at all, thankfully.[/QUOTE]
I used it a couple of times on the 18 horses I owned without a problem…then BAM.
Within minutes of dosing one of my broodmares (open) the side of her mouth where it was administered, it blew up like a balloon. It was freakish. It was also like her mouth was paralyzed.
My vet just happened to be here for one of my other horses, and gave her IV dex when her nostril almost swelled shut.
Never, ever used it again. And I was one of those that posted about this way back when. 
[QUOTE=JB;8224542]
Your disbelief in the tapeworm issue doesn’t make it not a risk.
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/ileal-impaction-preventable-life-threatening-condition
“Another recent development in our understanding of ileal impaction has been the finding that tapeworms can also cause this type of colic. Fortunately, feeding regimens and de-worming strategies can be adopted to reduce the risk of ileal impaction.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3119239/
“In retrospective studies of acute abdominal disease, ileal impaction has been reported to have a prevalence of 0.5% to 10.8% and accounts for 12% to 42% of all ileal obstructions (1). The exact cause is unknown, but an association with fine, high-roughage forage, Coastal Bermuda hay, and tapeworm infestation (Anoplocephala perfoliata) has been reported”
http://medblog.medlink-uk.net/horseandhoundvetreview/2013/03/07/tapeworm-the-enemy-within/
“Research at the University of Liverpool revealed that 80% of ileal impaction cases and 22% of spasmodic colic cases were due to tapeworms. Ensuring your horse is free of tapeworms will therefore reduce the risk of colic.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9622319
“The aetiological fraction for the ileal impaction data suggests that 81% of the ileal impaction cases in this study were tapeworm associated. This study concludes that A. perfoliata is a significant risk factor for spasmodic colic and ileal impaction colic in the horse; and that the risk of spasmodic colic increases with infection intensity.”
(bold is mine)
I could go on - there are quite a few more studies out there, here in the US and abroad
How in the world can you ignore that?
Why is is such a problem to deworm all horses at least once a year for tapeworms?
I don’t know why your world exists on the basis of “problems don’t exist until a products comes out to solve them.”
For sure, that is sometimes true, but for many, many things, particularly life-threatening issues, that is absolutely not the case.
I guess strongyles were never a problem before commercial dewormers too?[/QUOTE]
How many horses have you, personally, in your direct experience lost from a tapeworm infestation? Confirmed on necropsy? Not read about, heard about on FB or saw cited in a magazine, YOUR OWN charges? Well, after 22 years and 162 horses under my sole responsibility to date, not counting a couple hundred other ones I took care of part-time, my record is ZERO. Without treating. And we have wet conditions here frequently.
A “problem” which is NO problem is NO PROBLEM. Obviously, other places, conditions, and management styles may differ. But I’d want to be determining a “problem” EXISTS before risking this stuff. Ditto the “ulcer” thing–you have a poor doer, scope him, can show me the lesion, yeah NOW I believe you. Treat, at $33 per day. Cinchy or pinning ears? Not so much!
JB, I’ve long thought you’re just super-skeeved-out at the thought of ANY parasites whatsoever. My own theory is that some of them are probably symbiotic, and one reason we’re seeing freaky levels of metabolic disorders today is we’ve eliminated too many of them, too completely. BTW, it was one of the TOP AA-circuit vets who first floated that opinion to me, and I stand by what he says over your laundry list of citations. Everyone can make up their own mind . . .
I don’t need to have personal experience - first- or secondhand - to know that inadequate water intake is a major cause of colics because those who have access to way more horses and much more diagnostics have already done the research to prove the link.
I don’t need to have personal experience to know that withholding forage for hours at a time, day after day, is a significant factor in causing ulcers.
I don’t need to have had a horse who got ulcers because he was on bute, to know that NSAIDs are a major contributor to ulcers.
I don’t have to have personal experiences with X to know that the research out there proves that X has a significant link to Y practice/management/equipment/etc.
We KNOW that healthy horses with healthy immune systems take care of many parasites very well on their own. We know adults nearly always develop life-long immunity to ascarids, never to have a problem with them again. We also know that tapeworms don’t fall into that immunity situation.
I don’t know why no personal experience with a problem means the problem doesn’t exist.
And for the record, I am fully aware that horses need some level of parasites to keep the immune system functionally optimally, so no, I’m not remotely " super-skeeved-out at the thought of ANY parasites whatsoever"
Where you/have you lived, such that tapes have never been an issue? There are areas of the country where they aren’t a problem. Mine is not one of them.
You do what you want to do. I like to put the facts out there for anyone else to make up their own mind. I don’t trust most vets as far as I can throw them on being knowledgeable enough about parasites in horses, not when 80% (at least) of the people I talk to have vet telling them “just rotate dewormers every 6-8 weeks” :no: And I for SURE don’t trust most horse owners to have the foggiest about this, not when they are quick to buy the cheap “year long deworming package” that rotates dewormers every 8 weeks and sometimes isn’t even enough chemical for their 1400lb horse :no:
Top AA circuit vet? So? That’s supposed to mean they are on top of the parasite ballgame? Like they’re on top of feet?
I think (although I am not 100% positive) that Merial requires a non-disclosure agreement when they pay for the vet costs of affected horses. I’m with the “I can’t believe this product is still on the market” and “I can’t believe anyone still uses it” crowd. Good luck with the lawsuit–I hope you are successful. I also like the idea of putting pressure on the suppliers.
