I would imagine that in order to collect the subscription Clip My Horse should have made their terms available on the website. On going through the sign up on their site, the terms are not readily apparent before they take your money.
The subscription/“contract” is for the period of one year. So I guess you tell them to rotate. It would seem to me that if they want to do business in the US they should take US law/customs into account, AND pay taxes !
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Remember that the rest of the world puts the day/month/year, so 5/2 is tomorrow.
FWIW -
No, I probably didn’t send a cancellation notification. My CC on file with them expired, and I did not provide updated CC info. I thought that would be notification enough, since that is how things work in the U.S.
I can’t remember if I read their “Terms” before joining some years ago. I don’t know if their Terms were even readily available then. I just went to the link that JS provided, and copied the terms to a Word file. At Arial 10 pt, it is 14 pages. Really? Show of hands here, folks - how many of you have read the entire thing?
And how many people here in the U.S. would even suspect they will turn your account over to a collection agency? What a racket - makes me feel like I am dealing with some sort of German mafia.:no:
[QUOTE=DownYonder;7993816]
FWIW -
No, I probably didn’t send a cancellation notification. My CC on file with them expired, and I did not provide updated CC info. I thought that would be notification enough, since that is how things work in the U.S.
…[/QUOTE]
I don’t think that is correct for the US either. Regardless of your credit card expiring, you still have a contract until such time as you notify the company either by calling or in writing/email that you are canceling the subscription. Having an expired credit card doesn’t automatically mean you have canceled the subscription.
If you look at any terms of cancellation for any subscription in the US they all say you must contact them etc.
[QUOTE=Equibrit;7993707]
It would seem to me that if they want to do business in the US they should take US law/customs into account, AND pay taxes ![/QUOTE]
Our laws don’t work that way. The business and transaction are based in Germany. They don’t adopt the laws of a customer that electively choose to use their services. The customer who decided to do business in Germany has to follow their laws. Even in the US, companies don’t charge tax to out of state customers.
OP, sorry to your situation and thank you for helping us not get caught in the same situation. I did something similar with a US company and they sent me to collections two months after my card expired for those two months of unpaid services (that I hadn’t used in over a year). It was certainly an experience.
Not suggesting that they adopt US laws. But…if they are constantly having trouble renewing 1 year contracts in the USA because of this, they should take note. I would be surprised if they could impose their law in the USA with regard to collections.
[QUOTE=js;7993830]
I don’t think that is correct for the US either. Regardless of your credit card expiring, you still have a contract until such time as you notify the company either by calling or in writing/email that you are canceling the subscription. Having an expired credit card doesn’t automatically mean you have canceled the subscription.
If you look at any terms of cancellation for any subscription in the US they all say you must contact them etc.[/QUOTE]
That is rather interesting, because I know in several other cases, my CC on file has expired, I didn’t contact the service provider to renew with an updated CC, and that was that. My subscription/contract was automatically cancelled, and there were no threatening phone calls, emails or letters.
And again I ask - who is going to read a 14 page document of “Terms” before they sign up for something?
And I have now heard from several other people who had the same thing happen to them. They just ignored the threat from the collection company, and it went away.
I am pretty miffed about the whole thing. I don’t want my credit rating to be affected by a rinky-dink situation like this. Not sure how I will handle it, but I hope my experience is fair warning to others.
I do hope everything works out for the best for you! (=
But, yes, it is a fair warning that if you use a paid service, at least skim the terms and look at the important stuff (eg cancellation) properly. And communicate.
But I would have, at least, expected an e-mail (or two) from clipmyhorse.tv along the lines of “Please pay your yearly subscription fee of 99$. If you don’t pay by X date, the amount due will be handed over to a collection company.” That would have been the decent/proper thing to do. What if there had been some kind of an error in bank and you hadn’t known that your money didn’t go through?
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If you are paying for a 1 year subscription, would you not expect the “contract” to terminate after 1 year ?
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I assume all those services renew automatically. If you didn’t actually cancel the service, I don’t see how you can blame the provider. I’d pay the fees owed and chalk it up to a life lesson.
[QUOTE=Capriole;7998436]
I assume all those services renew automatically. If you didn’t actually cancel the service, I don’t see how you can blame the provider. I’d pay the fees owed and chalk it up to a life lesson.[/QUOTE]
Ditto. I know many US companies that will send accounts to collections under this scenario. Your credit card expiring has nothing at all to do with whether or not you owe money on a contract, or whether you did/didn’t terminate an automatically renewing contract. Some companies are just more willing to enforce than others.
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It is called negative billing and here, in Canada, there is a law against it - when the seller sends a bill and leaves it up to the buyer to make the cancellation. It is used by some companies because a lot of people cave and do pay to avoid the hassles, and indeed, in US and Germany, etc. it may be considered an ok tactic.
The company has nothing to lose and may have a lot to gain by doing this, hence the reason they do it, of course.
I don’t think many would take the further steps, but it is also a warning to read the fine print, which none of us do. They know it. We know it, and I certainly cannot remember a whole year later what the fine print was that I signed up for.
Insurance companies do similar. They deny claims so they can add to their bottom line, but in reality they would not win in court…but few people take it so far.
Its a numbers game.
I am po’d. For years I’ve been sort of free-broadcasting footage from stallion presentations in my youtube channel. Only recently I have opened a second one for the business side of things so I have checked the old/private one in a few days. Now today I’ve found out CMH has claimed some of my recent clips resulting in my channel containing 1600+ clips from 8+years being redflagged by youtube with a threat saying my account will be shut down permanently in case I get another claim?!
This is footage I filmed and uploaded myself so I could use it for future reference. What’s worse is there’s nothing that can be done because after looking closely I found a note on the ticket of the show in question saying recording even for private use was not allowed. One would think before taking such drastic measures they would send at least some kind of notification? I’ve been doing this for 15+ years so even before youtube and here comes CMH and bans it?
All I can say is I was a CMH subscriber until today.
Yikes! Glad I read this before almost just signing up…
In that case does anyone want to lend me their account so I can look up a video of a 5 yr old :lol:
I am also having trouble with this site. I even agreed to the notice they required, but then my credit card expired. I did not really notice as I don’t use that site. The next thing is I receive letters from Germany about owing $174 and needing to send a check immediately. Please avoid ClipMyHorse.de.
Perhaps the OP should link this thread to the senders of the letter(s). Let them know what kind of bad press can be generated when a company becomes intransigent with enforcing policies. (Which policies were specifically designed to take advantage of the subscriber.)
Word to the wise - never get sucked in to automatic renewal. I used to (laziness/convenience) but I have had several bad experiences. It can be incredibly hard to “give notice”, even though the language says that “you may cancel at any time”.
Best to avoid such sites/providers altogether and only patronize places where you have to opt in if you want auto renewal. The places which make auto renewal the default condition know when they see you sign up that they have a sucker on their subscription list. 
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FYI Subscriber beware - I’m currently dealing with a similar situation with ClipMyHorse. I signed up to watch one show then immediately canceled (in June). They had my card on file and ran it for the month I had the subscription. I’m still confused as to how they think I’m owing any money. No invoices have been produced. If they require a minimum two month membership (reading through this seems German law might) that should have been stated and they should have charged the card before allowing my cancellation to go through. I will never be doing service with this company again.
June… I joined, watched one show, canceled immediately. I’ve done this with many streaming services and it’s never caused an issue.
July 28 from them:
In the hustle and bustle of everyday life an invoice can easily go missing. Unfortunately we have not received payment from you and are sending you this email as a friendly reminder about your outstanding payment. (18.99 euro)
July 28 me:
I canceled my account.
July 29 them:
Your contract is already canceled and will run out on 19.08.2019. If there are still questions or your concern has not yet been clarified, you are welcome to contact us at any time.
August 8 them:
Hi _________,
It appears that something went wrong with your payment. To continue using all the features of CMH.TV, we kindly remind you to pay the outstanding amount as shown below.
August 8 me:
I canceled my account so I should not be getting billed.
Sometime in September I got a letter saying something like the email below.
Oct 15 them:
After checking our administration we could not find any payment for your renewed membership. Several reminders were sent via email as well as a final reminder in paper form has been sent to the address stated in your account on the website, having no effect.
This is a final reminder to pay within the next 10 days. Should you require payment assistance, please contact us.
If we don’t receive your payment in the next 10 days, an automatic debt collection procedure will start (creating more costs than necessary).
Oct 15 me:
I canceled my membership immediately after signing up. There are no outstanding payments. I have spoken numerous times to emails from ClipMyHorse and assured the account was closed. I do not understand why you keep emailing for payment that is not due. There was also a card on file that was charged the first and only month I was a subscribing member of ClipMyHorse.
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Technically though, becuase you signed up you owe for the minimum 2 months, no?
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The subscription didn’t say anything about two months when I signed up… that is where this is confusing. Even when I canceled there was no “hey you canceled but you are still paying next month regardless of that”. They had my card, why not just run it immediately if there was going to be a second payment and I couldn’t cancel the same month? They still have my card information. I signed up I canceled and they confirmed I canceled… but I still owe them? They have not shown an invoice or anything, just said you owe us now pay with nothing to back that up. Why aren’t they just running the card on file… it works just fine.
The only reason I brought up two months was because reading through this I saw that someone referred to German law as you give 30 days but you still have to pay for the second month regardless. Here in the US I’ve not had to do that - heck I’ve even had subscriptions with other international companies without issue. I make sure I always cancel before the end of the 30 days so that isn’t a question ever. Saying “hey pay us” without backup or reasoning or any information… just confirming that yes you canceled? It just makes no sense. Why are they sending emails and letters when they have my card info on file and why aren’t they answering with anything more than yes I’m right I canceled? Not a single invoice. Just… very strange.
