Waterford Bit

[equisusan]

[QUOTE=camilaochoa151100;8011957]
So I know that the bit won’t solve my bucking problem, but I really need to find a bit for him because today we went back to the gaga and he was extremely behind the vertical, but when he is in the copper roller D snaffle or the pelham he just yanks the reins out of my hands. Does any one know of a bit that is in between, not so strong like the gag, but not so “soft” like the pelham and I say “soft” because that is how much it affects my guy, he is a hot tempered horse probably a 7 or 8 out of 10 but we have been having some problems with his bit.[/QUOTE]

Ok it sounds to me like this guy is sensitive and less of a jughead/dull/German type. Is this correct? When you used the Pelham did you use two reins or a converter? The curb action will be much stronger with a converter.

When he runs through your hand does he also put his head up or does he just grab the bit and pull down or straight ahead? What makes him buck?

I tend to think that horses that go behind the vertical need less bit and need the freedom to go forward but I understand not wanting to be run off with. Circling to calm the mind of a hot horse is the best. Pelhams come in many shank lengths and mouthpieces.

I love the Waterford and horses can’t really grab it and bear down like on a Mullen mouth but it sounds like your horse needs a basic lesson in “I pull you whoa”. A bit more info or video might help us.

[Kottbulle]

If you feel confident that you have ruled out any lameness or soreness issues, then i don’t see any problem trying different bits.
I have a gelding that went very well in a waterford full cheek… it helped when he wanted to get strong on course or when in a lesson.
For the longest time I thought he was just hyper sensitive to the different metals of the bits when in reality it was that he has a very low palate. Like new born foal low palate… So it turned out any bit that was a single joint was very painful no matter how soft you were with your hands. So i started using the waterford bit…
I even had a waterford pelham which he went beautifully in. I also would switch to a mylar no-pinch dee ring when he seemed to act like the waterford was too much.
He does have a slight parrot mouth so I am thinking that is why his palate is so low. But he is happiest in waterfords or multi jointed bits.

I have found with horses that like to get behind the bit, that they can learn to do this in just about any bit… so sometimes you just need to switch it up… my guy would go great for weeks in the waterford and suddenly be wierd and switching him to something else for a few rides would sort of reset things… sometimes it meant the pelham, sometimes it meant the mylar… don’t be afraid to mix it up.

Last note… not all waterfords are created equally… I’m not saying you need an expensive fancy one, but some cheaply made ones can have sharper edges on the balls or have two few balls/joints… I always would take the bit and lay it across my palm… close the finger tightly around the bit and wiggle it back and forth… if it pinched or felt rough I wouldn’t buy it. That being said, his waterford is a $28 stainless steel one, which met all the criteria.

[Grasshopper]

It should be easy and inexpensive to find a Waterford to try. I used one to hack and sometimes do XC on my older mare, who had a tendency to pull hard out on hacks. The catch is that it’s not really a bit you can use if you want the horse to take contact. I used it because I could float the reins unless the mare was trying to lean and pull, in which event I had a good half halt without drama.

The rest of the time, when I wanted the mare to take contact, I used first a French link snaffle, and then found she liked the Myler comfort snaffle even better. The Myler has a barrel in the center instead of a French link or lozenge, so it lies flat and is stable (and doesn’t create a nutcracker effect), but each side of the bit rotates and can be used independently.

I will note that my mare’s pulling was worst when she was out of shape and weak. Once she learned to accept my leg (as in, understood it meant to lift her back and engage her hind end) and when she was in shape, she became very soft and adjustable most of the time.

[Marimee2]

I sent you a PM…

[wendy]

he is not lame we already did a test and he receives turnout, and 4 times a day 15 minute lunge because he is super energetic.

you lunge him 4 times a day??? if he wasn’t lame before he’s going to be soon…
I think you might have more problems going on here than just a bit problem. Horses that buck, and pull, are usually trying to tell you something important. You need to listen and figure out what.

Gag bits elevate the horse’s head. Pelham bits tend to make them drop their heads and can encourage them to curl behind the bit. Yet you say the horse is curling behind the bit on a gag? that seems very odd to me. Most horses that find gags too harsh throw their heads up.

[kookicat]

How fit is he? If you’re lunging him for an hour a day, either he’s too fit for the ridden work you’re doing, or something hurts.

[hype]

I like Waterford bits for certain horses. I have found that the Waterfords (for the horses I’ve ridden in it anyway) have little to no brakes.

If this horse bucks and runs, you’re going to be in for a fun ride!

For horses who simply lean, it doesn’t give them anything to lean on. I’ve found it good for those types of horses who lean to get out of work or to evade your hand.

For a horse who is built downhill and leans for balance, I’m not sure this is the bit for you. I’d go for an elevator or a gag so that you can rebalance them periodically while riding. The Waterford didn’t really let me do that. Self carriage is easy for some and not so easy for others.

[salymandar]

In my horse’s younger years, he had the oh-so pleasant habits of bucking and curling behind the bit. I had four bridles with different bits on them and cycled through them until now, several years later, I predominately use one bit. I am very excited about having less tack to clean!

I used the Myler ported bit for a while, but I felt like he didn’t accept contact as well as he should. He also avoided contact with the waterford.

My two favorite bits to help prevent him from bucking that were mild enough for him were a full-cheek twisted Dr. Bristol and a double jointed happy mouth two ring elevator with both reins. I probably could have used a plain Dr. Bristol, but it is what I had. Now he goes most of the time in a jointed happy mouth snaffle. I use the elevator for trail rides and a few times a year when he needs a reminder. For him, I have found he prefers happy mouth and double jointed bits.

I think the best way to find the best bit for your horse is to see if you can borrow some bits that seem like they may work and ride in them a while, maybe switch them around a few times. I wasn’t sure I liked the bit I use now at first. It probably took a good six months before I felt confident that it was my horse’s bit. The elevator and the Dr. Bristol helped me do the training I needed to set him up for success in it.

[VTMorgan06]

[QUOTE=camilaochoa151100;8010126]
he is not lame we already did a test and he receives turnout, and 4 times a day 15 minute lunge because he is super energetic.[/QUOTE]

I don’t understand this part, he’s out on turnout but 4 times a day he gets brought inside for 15 minute lunge sessions? I would be concerned that you are just increasing his stamina and building fitness so that he has more energy to be naughty under saddle. I know you came here looking for but advice but there are holes in the story that make it difficult to see the whole picture.

[borntobewild129]

before you worry so much about a bit, i would stop lunging him four times a day…that is probably making him go “ugh” and is frustrating to him. leave him alone. find a bit thats comfortable, i’d say a french link loose ring or one with a lozenge. and i would get more vet work done, i would check for ulcers or anything neurological… sounds more like a health problem!