Watering arena using creek and pump

[Justice]

I was all set to have waterers installed in my outdoor this summer. The cons are high cost of installation, high cost of electricity to water(well pump) and time it would take to water. We already run sprinklers about 10 hours per day and it takes s lot of electricity to run the well pump. Another huge negative is that they would have to do three heads up the center of my arena for even watering. We have this a lot in the Midwest, you just build little brick flower beds and fill with day Lillie’s and then the watered pops out but because my ring is in it means disturbing the base.

We were here watching Gold Rush last night and got the idea to buy a pump, hosing and a monster sprinkler(s) to water the arena from our creek (about 400 feet away).

Has anyone done this? What set up did you use? Pros and cons? TIA!

[sherian]

no idea about your area but here the conservation authority would be very unhappy with you if you did that on a regular basis

[horsepoor]

In my state, and most out here in the west, you would need a water right permit. Not sure what is required in your state, but I’d sure check before I started pumping.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Checking water rights is what came to my mind as well. Just because there is water than runs over or under your land doesn’t necessarily mean you have the right to take it and use it as you wish.

[clanter]

appears OP is in Michigan…

On inland lakes, streams and rivers, the neighboring property owners have common rights to use the entire surface of the body of water itself. They can swim, wade, fish, hunt, trap, ice skate or gather ice on the entire surface of the lake, stream or river, as long as they don’t unreasonably interfere with the same rights of other adjacent property owners to do the same. They also can make reasonable use of the water itself on their adjacent property, for such purposes as irrigating a lawn or garden.

https://www.grbj.com/articles/90591-know-your-waterfront-property-rights

[Guilherme]

There’s an old saying in the arid West: Whiskey’s for drinkin’; water is for fightin’ over!

What are your riparian rights in MI? In states with abundant rainfall you usually don’t have a lot of restrictions. On the other hand maybe you do. It all depends on local law. And if the creek is deep enough to float a log on any time of the year it’s likely “navigable waters of the U.S.” and the Army Corp of Engineers could get involved.

I’d start with you local Soil Conservation office. They will have the Federal rules. Then your Extension Office. They will have, or can get, the State rules.

G.

[Justice]

Good point. Michigan’s riparian rights are easy to work with, you need to not make a difference in level of water flow which this definitely would not. You also need to make sure that pump noise does not bother neighbors.

I think we’re good there, and we figured out how to do it. I am just trying to figure out how much I will hate wrestling the giant hoses. We generally get a lot of rain and I’m gone a lot in the summer, but the ring has great drainage so when we have a dry spell, it’s awful, and we’ve had one for the last two years. The dust does not bother me too much but it changes the character of the footing.

[paintedpony]

I as well would investigate the regulations for removing water from the creek. You may discover this option is not available to you.

If you have sufficient tractor power, consider the purchase of a used liquid manure tank. In my area, a functional unit can be purchased for as low as 2K. The tank can be filled in advance, and will get the job done in minutes.

[Guilherme]

These come up for sale from time to time:

https://olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_m149.php

Buy one here:

http://www.vintagemilitarytrucks.com/Military_Water_Buffalo_Trailer.htm

Not cheap, but you’ll will it to your grandchildren if you take care of it!!!

No price on this but it gives you some ideas of design:

https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-attachment/for-sale/24541211/2018-circle-d-truck-sales-300

You might find some used with Google’s help.

Here’s a source for tanks of various sizes:

https://www.ntotank.com/detailing-tanks

You can put one of these on a trailer and fill it with a pump along the water source and then use your tractor to move it and wet down the arena.

The only major difficulty with moving water is that it weighs 8 lbs/gal (more or less) and that means you need a robust unit to haul more that a few gallons. Stuff that comes from the Army is usually made to be “soldier proof” and that means it’s ROBUST!

Pumping water 400 feet (likely uphill) is going to take some power particularly if the pipe is bigger than a garden hose. You’ll have to do a “yellow pad comparison” to cost out the delta between a transport system and a pumping system. In doing that, consider the cost of labor. If you make your 400’ run permanent then you have a one time expense. If it’s not then do you have to take it up and put it down whenever you use it? If so, that’s a big labor cost. If you leave it down on the surface what’s near it to damage it and require repair/replacement?

Could you do a standpipe? Put your tank a few feet off the ground to get some “head pressure.” Than put a pump on the tank to move the water to the spray heads. Fill the tank by submerging a “sling pump” in the river that will use the force of the current to pump water into the tank. This would mean that you require no energy to fill the tank and not all that much to actually spray arena. Here’s a company that makes sling/ram pumps. There are a bunch of DIY videos on utube.

Good luck in your program.

G.

[Guilherme]

Well, my last post was unapproved. Reason unknown, but probably because I linked to some commercial sources for pumps, water haulers, and tanks. Maybe it will appear, maybe it won’t.

G.

[TCA_Arabians]

Guilherme - I occasionally get the ‘unapproved post’ as well. I don’t think it relates to content or links. I think it’s a glitch in the system for this Forum. But, I don’t know that for sure.

[Rackonteur]

@Justice

Good point. Michigan’s riparian rights are easy to work with, you need to not make a difference in level of water flow which this definitely would not. You also need to make sure that pump noise does not bother neighbors.

I think we’re good there, and we figured out how to do it. I am just trying to figure out how much I will hate wrestling the giant hoses. We generally get a lot of rain and I’m gone a lot in the summer, but the ring has great drainage so when we have a dry spell, it’s awful, and we’ve had one for the last two years. The dust does not bother me too much but it changes the character of the footing.

What about the amphibians, reptiles, and plants that live in or depend on the creek? What will it do to them? Do you really want to pump up frog eggs? What will that do to the ecology of the creek?

Have the equipment and the “power” doesn’t give humans the right to interfere with local wildlife.

To say nothing of creek bacteria that will come into contact with your horses’ feet, the soles of your boots, and the paws of your barn cats.

[Bluey]

@Rackonteur

What about the amphibians, reptiles, and plants that live in or depend on the creek? What will it do to them? Do you really want to pump up frog eggs? What will that do to the ecology of the creek?

Have the equipment and the “power” doesn’t give humans the right to interfere with local wildlife.

To say nothing of creek bacteria that will come into contact with your horses’ feet, the soles of your boots, and the paws of your barn cats.

Hmmmmm …

Ever look at what is on your hands, the soles of your shoes, your cat’s paws, just any and all in our world, under a microscope, in a slide?

Yes, we are one to billions of bacteria out there, ourselves full of them, our commensals, by design in our evolution.

On a more practical level, ever used a pump on any water source to fill a container?

[paintedpony]

Used liquid manure tanks are a nice size. Usually start around the two thousand gallon mark, with the next size 5 thousand gallons. They have an internal pump, and spray water in a fan pattern 40-60 feet in width.

Tractor power is your limiting factor.

[Lucassb]

@Justice

I was all set to have waterers installed in my outdoor this summer. The cons are high cost of installation, high cost of electricity to water(well pump) and time it would take to water. We already run sprinklers about 10 hours per day and it takes s lot of electricity to run the well pump. Another huge negative is that they would have to do three heads up the center of my arena for even watering. We have this a lot in the Midwest, you just build little brick flower beds and fill with day Lillie’s and then the watered pops out but because my ring is in it means disturbing the base.

We were here watching Gold Rush last night and got the idea to buy a pump, hosing and a monster sprinkler(s) to water the arena from our creek (about 400 feet away).

Has anyone done this? What set up did you use? Pros and cons? TIA!

We looked into a MicroRain system last year and were advised that we could use our creek as a water source. Our extension service was very helpful and walked us through the set up and local regulations (which were minimal.) We actually had one on trial for a bit and it did work but in the end I decided to install sprinklers instead (around the perimeter rather than up the middle.)

In case you want to check it out: http://www.microrain.net/

[Justice]

Thank you! Still on the fence, getting quotes from a water truck driver who puts liquid mag on the neighbors indoor as well, obviously it will wash away when it rains.

[skyy]

The dad of one of our boarders (he’s an engineer) built us a pump system for our outdoor. The pump and engine is mounted on a cart (like the kind they have at Home Depot in the gardening area. There is a roughly 30 foot intake hose (with a metal basket like a collander on the intake) that hooks to the pump and the other end is in the creek. . There are 4 sections of hose (I think the diameter is 3") that hook to the out of the pump that go to the outdoor ring. Maybe 300’ in total length? The end of this is hooked into a PVC pipe system with 2 filters that runs around the ring attached to the fence. This feeds 10 or 12 spray heads hidden behind the fence posts. They pop up when there is water pressure.

The system works amazingly well and the ring can be adequately watered in 15-20 mins (the ring is 110’ x 220’ sand and rubber) I roll out the hoses once a year in the spring, haul the pump down to the creek and set it up. The hoses get rolled back up in the fall. The biggest pain is pulling the pump up from the creek when there is a flood threat. Before this past summer, I would only pull the pump when there was a flash flood warning. This past summer we had crazy weather and t storms would just sit over us and dump water. Our creek floods its banks quickly so every time there was a t storm warning I pulled the pump. I do not roll up any of the hoses for a t storm - I just move the pump.

[wildlifer]

As a resource agency freshwater biologist - you need to contact your state resource agency first. This could have real impacts on wildlife, especially if there are rare species (there are a lot more rare invertebrates than you think).

In addition, as invasive exotic species spread, so do the parasites & disease they carry, such as flukes carried by invasive snails, which can be transmitted to horses or humans. AVM lives on an exotic cyanobacterium & we initially thought it was fatal to only birds (first detected killing off eagles), but it is turning up in other taxa as they are tested, including fish, amphibians…I suspect we’ll find more.

My horses are fenced out of my creek both for their health & the creek’s health. I know well what is in both & value the safety of each.