WEC Ocala shows to run under NSBA

[MHM]

@Jealoushe

@IPEsq

It’s just for FEI licensed officials. Same as FEI riders. Can’t participate in unsanctioned events.

I thought I read, that USEF was trying to make it the same for USEF riders and showing here.

I don’t see how that could happen without causing a massive stampede away from USEF shows.

The participants in FEI competitions are a much smaller group. Many of the people who show in the lower levels at USEF shows, which comprise a huge chunk of the entries at most shows, are also likely to show at competitions that are not recognized by the USEF, whether they are breed shows like AQHA or local circuits or just schooling shows that are not recognized by anyone.

The USEF would probably lose a large number of participants if exhibitors had to make that choice.

[Jealoushe]

@MHM

The USEF would probably lose a large number of participants if exhibitors had to make that choice.

I would hope so, its a bit much, even for the FEI to do these things.

[Janet]

@mmeqcenter

Looking at the Florida Horse Park calendar, there’s many instances of recognized shows (USDF and USEA) running/that ran concurrently or within a week of unrecognized shows/equestrian events. USEF’s faux concern for horse health and safety regarding unrecognized shows is trash.

I think the USEF is concerned about unrecognized shows WITH SIX MILLION DOLLARS IN PRIZE MONEY, not unrecognized shows in general.

[mmeqcenter]

@Janet

@mmeqcenter

Looking at the Florida Horse Park calendar, there’s many instances of recognized shows (USDF and USEA) running/that ran concurrently or within a week of unrecognized shows/equestrian events. USEF’s faux concern for horse health and safety regarding unrecognized shows is trash.

I think the USEF is concerned about unrecognized shows WITH SIX MILLION DOLLARS IN PRIZE MONEY, not unrecognized shows in general.

I’m sure you’re right but, I don’t see what prize money has to do with “health and safety.” Except maybe the number of competitors. But, as has been stated above NSBA has similar rules and drug testing, etc.

[mmeqcenter]

Ooh fun, it quoted the quote in the quote

[MHM]

@mmeqcenter

Ooh fun, it quoted the quote in the quote

The quote function now is completely out of control! For me, anyway. Lol.

[Janet]

@mmeqcenter

I’m sure you’re right but, I don’t see what prize money has to do with “health and safety.” Except maybe the number of competitors. But, as has been stated above NSBA has similar rules and drug testing, etc.

I am suggestng that “health and safety” is the politically correct excuse thay are proclaiming, but that the REAL reason they are striking out is because they want an effetive monopoly on shows with big prize money.

[skydy]

@Jealoushe

@IPEsq

It’s just for FEI licensed officials. Same as FEI riders. Can’t participate in unsanctioned events.

I thought I read, that USEF was trying to make it the same for USEF riders and showing here.

Where did you read that?

There are currently no USEF rules against it. Since hunters are not under FEI jurisdiction, USEF would have to make new rules. Surely they must know that it would be ill advised for them to even try it.

[mmeqcenter]

Oh gotcha, yes absolutely

[ghst13]

This article does a good job explaining how the FEI rule gets invoked. Notice that USEF has to explicitly bring unsanctioned competitions to the FEI’s attention.

USEF Pulls Licensed shows from New World Equestrian Center

[MHM]

@ghst13

This article does a good job explaining how the FEI rule gets invoked. Notice that USEF has to explicitly bring unsanctioned competitions to the FEI’s attention.

https://horsesport.com/due-south/usef-pulls-licensed-shows-from-new-world-equestrian-center/

Interesting that the same person who was the general counsel for the FEI now works for WEC.

[JenEM]

Interesting that the same person who was the general counsel for the FEI now works for WEC.

That makes me think this has been in the works a lot longer than the flurry of recent press releases would make it appear. Almost makes me wonder whether they built the entire Ocala facility with an aim towards challenging the USEF date stranglehold.

Which makes it all the odder to me that the organization they chose to partner with for it didn’t seem entirely ready for it, without a H/J rule book or even clear information that non-stock-breeds could be registered with them. Are they prepared to double their membership, record-keeping, drug enforcement, etc.? That’s really my mental sticking point on the whole thing, not the challenge to the USEF-status-quo.

[Tha_Ridge]

I agree with the first bit, but I’m wondering if maybe the NSBA partnership came later, hence the lack of preparation on that org’s end. Perhaps they intended to just run them as unsanctioned shows and then realized that, at that scale, they needed some sort of formal rulebook, drug policy, etc.

[poltroon]

Although I agree that the score sheets are obscure, I really value having the chance to see them, and I saved a few score sheets that I was on that were on the way to the trash back in the day. (Benefit of also working the office at a home show.) They’re not that hard to read if common notation has been explained to you and I have at least one that was a winning round in my scrapbook album.

I don’t understand your comment that it’s not “fair” to see how other riders did. Their performance was public just like mine. Seeing that I won because everyone else chipped is information and I don’t think it needs to be withheld or hidden in shame.

Anyway: I appreciate your discussion of why hunter cards as currently marked and run can’t be done like dressage without substantial change to how we run the class, and your concern that if they were posted that people would expect more… but I still like them.

(FWIW figure skating has changed its judging - it is now a very numeric and algorithmic scoring system more like dressage.)

[neigh]

USEF isn’t very good at testing at rated shows. IF the testers come to WEF, they know exactly who NOT to test.

[poltroon]

@AffirmedHope

I hope USEF fires the lawyer that gave them the go ahead on this, if they even consulted one.

This is my somewhat uninformed opinion, but if anything, it feels like they were legally obligated to go this direction. They have rules and they have to follow and enforce them and if they decide not to pick this fight then there are significant legal consequences for that too.

I don’t actually care about the mileage rule and if so many people want it gone then use the process to change and/or remove it.

It is annoying to watch this as a giant pissing contest instead of people working things out, for sure.

[skydy]

@poltroon

@AffirmedHope

I hope USEF fires the lawyer that gave them the go ahead on this, if they even consulted one.

This is my somewhat uninformed opinion, but if anything, it feels like they were legally obligated to go this direction. They have rules and they have to follow and enforce them and if they decide not to pick this fight then there are significant legal consequences for that too.

I don’t actually care about the mileage rule and if so many people want it gone then use the process to change and/or remove it.

It is annoying to watch this as a giant pissing contest instead of people working things out, for sure.

If I remember correctly there was an effort by some of the membership to get USEF to change the mileage rule in the past and it was unsuccessful. USEF would not be budged.

[ghst13]

@poltroon

@AffirmedHope

I hope USEF fires the lawyer that gave them the go ahead on this, if they even consulted one.

This is my somewhat uninformed opinion, but if anything, it feels like they were legally obligated to go this direction. They have rules and they have to follow and enforce them and if they decide not to pick this fight then there are significant legal consequences for that too.

I don’t actually care about the mileage rule and if so many people want it gone then use the process to change and/or remove it.

It is annoying to watch this as a giant pissing contest instead of people working things out, for sure.

I have no problem with USEF following its rules, but they need to be applied in a fair and even manner. If they are going to single out WEC as unsanctioned to the FEI, then they should do the same for other major non-USEF shows such as The Ridge, or warn every management company that hosts both rated and unrated shows.

[Montanas_Girl]

@ghst13

I have no problem with USEF following its rules, but they need to be applied in a fair and even manner. If they are going to single out WEC as unsanctioned to the FEI, then they should do the same for other major non-USEF shows such as The Ridge, or warn every management company that hosts both rated and unrated shows.

This. Last I checked, there was no USEF rule against a facility hosting both USEF and non-USEF events. Unless USEF is going to try to prevent EVERY event venue that hosts recognized events from also hosting unrecognized ones - which would be ABSURD and surely illegal - then I don’t see this particular argument going very far.

[skydy]

@Montanas_Girl

@ghst13

I have no problem with USEF following its rules, but they need to be applied in a fair and even manner. If they are going to single out WEC as unsanctioned to the FEI, then they should do the same for other major non-USEF shows such as The Ridge, or warn every management company that hosts both rated and unrated shows.

This. Last I checked, there was no USEF rule against a facility hosting both USEF and non-USEF events. Unless USEF is going to try to prevent EVERY event venue that hosts recognized events from also hosting unrecognized ones - which would be ABSURD and surely illegal - then I don’t see this particular argument going very far.

Exactly.
USEF’s reasoning for backing out was, that continuing with the show would “confuse” its members and that they were concerned about “horse welfare”. No USEF rules were being violated.