Weekend races

[smoofox]

@findeight

@Laurierace

And then there is a freaking great race like the Travers and it sucks you right back in again

Feel so bad for NYTs team, talk about highs and lows, breaks my heart for them.

Walked away but left the TV on while I did chores and that very good turf race (even though 9 year old Channel Maker faded) lassoed me back in, Echo Zulu made me smile and Archangelo made everything right. Almost anyway.

Wasn’t the same jockey on both breakdowns a few weeks back? Cant remember who.

IMO FOX has handled these things respectfully, when Acacia interviewed the vet when he delivered the news, she was visibly shaken. They have not glossed it over or ignored it as was the custom in the past.

Agreed.

I was watching - and as NY Thunder was pulling away, I actually thought how much he looked like Maple Leaf Mel… and then it happened. So shattered.

It was more than obvious this was not a recoverable injury. I was not even aware of what happened to Nobel - I saw them go into the gate for that race but stepped out to the barn quickly when a delivery came. I did not rewind it.

I have been watching every day of the Saratoga meet - I record it and then watch in the evenings, fast forwarding through commercials, chatter and everything but riders up, post parades, warm ups and the actual races.

The worst episode on TV was still Go For Wand back in 1990. The endless replays. The straight on shot as GFW struggled to her feet and moved across the track to the outside rail… horrific.

My worst experience in person (I have mentioned him before) was a bottom claimer running in Alberta one cool night many many years ago… he was a tough little guy and a closer who always came from way back - not always successfully. As he reached the quarter pole, there was an audible crack sound (his femur shattered) and he went down in back, struggling with his front legs to get up. He managed to stagger forward before people got to him. I did not know his connections - but as his sad saga played out in front of us, I cried with them.

[Rackonteur]

I’ve been really looking forward to watching the Hopeful because I’ve wanted to see it ever since i read Son of the Black Stallion and Man o’ War.
Now I’m afraid to.

[Mara]

And the following week’s Sports Illustrated had a frame-by-frame color spread of the tragedy, complete with a full page photo of the veterinarian, loaded syringe in hand, tending to the filly.

It took too long, but the networks finally figured out that no one in the viewing audience, save for a few ghoulish sociopaths, wants to see a doomed horse struggling across the track on three legs. They cut away pretty quickly if possible and don’t revisit the scene endlessly. A respectful update and interview with a vet are all we ask for.

[libgrrl]

That was absolutely horrific. Also a “bad day” because earlier in the card Mr. Nickerson (who I had seen in person – at Saratoga) had an aortic episode, and at least a couple fell over him (and Shaker Knit was euthanized.)

I stopped watching for quite some time after that. It had been getting better, I think, until the rash of Santa Anita episodes, then Churchill and Saratoga this year. Heartbreaking.

[Laurierace]

I remember that like yesterday. I was sitting in front of the tv and legit screamed out in horror. My husband came running from the bedroom and I couldn’t even speak to tell him what was wrong. The coverage of that including the SI spread was unconscionable.

It wasn’t too many years later that I myself became part of the racing industry and am sorry to say I too had a horse breakdown once. It is something you never want to remember but never could forget. I learned from mine though and made some changes to the way I did things that thankfully kept all the horses I ran after that safe. The most important change was listening to my gut. I had that horse checked by 3 different vets before that race because I just had a bad feeling about it.

[findeight]

Remember that BC at Belmont because that did drive me away from racing for awhile, as did Eight Bells. Don’t need to see replays of the leg giving way and the horse struggling to rise then shrug shoulders saying it happens as used to be the case.

Today questions are asked openly and investigation and prevention frequent topics along with respect for all involved, including the horse. Plus its now acceptable for sports participants to show emotion and human reactions to catastrophic incidents in any sport. Still makes me sick.

[snaffle1987]

I understand that breakdowns are inevitable; it happens in the pastures in freak accidents. However; after this past weekend I am left wondering how many horses have to die in nationally televised races, and otherwise, before something is done.

The horrific thing about all of this is not only did NYT fall at the head of the pack about halfway down the stretch (in front of thousands of people), he got up and continued to fumble to the finish line; where he stopped. While thousands of people standing on the rail shrieked in horror and watched the entirety of the episode. To our viewing luck; the camera did not show him running to the finish line. But for those in attendance, they will never be able to scrape that from their minds.

I was fortunate to miss Mel’s breakdown. I got up to get a drink of water. Somehow divine intervention was playing into this as well as I had watched every race up until the Allen Jerkins, and I left to go feed my two backyard residents. I arrived back inside to see the solemn aftermath.

I watched the race where Nobel broke down on the gallop out. He was several strides behind the 3 horses galloping out in front of him. They were coming out of the turn, the camera was zoomed in on the three horses in front being pulled up when the jockeys heads all swung around to look behind them. That’s when it happened. They were just about to a trot, not going fast at all. But it had just poured torrential rain too. Nothing was shown on TV and because of the location it happened; the only people to see it were those standing on the rail on the corner/barn side.

I was told that NYT’s trainer and grooms were inconsolable leaving the track after he was euthanized. I feel for these people who put so much love and care into their steeds everyday. And then to see them go through something so horrific, painful, etc will change a person forever.

That being said, part of my heart is also seeing eye to eye with the throngs of protesters outside of Saratoga on Sunday. Because I am now wondering how many horses have to die horrific deaths before we start asking Why?

I don’t think that anyone within the industry and outside of it whom truly loves horses can say that what is occurring is an acceptable and tolerable part of the game.

I am also shocked that they have continued on at Saratoga under the sole blessing of horseman and jockeys saying the racing surfaces are safe. I understand they have livelihoods they want supported until the end of the meet; but racing officials taking the word of horseman/jockeys and not a full investigation by professionals is abhorrent to me. It is also shocking to me that the sole focus continues to be the blame on potential racing surfaces. They are confident that enough is being done back in the barns to catch soundness and issues that can’t be seen from the outside?

I actually spent some time on Sunday going through Saratoga’s data collection of Injuries and Deaths. I removed any non training/racing related deaths from the database. I also filtered out any non racing/training related injuries. I filtered out any “Vanned Off” records that did not have a follow up listed (Euth or Injury).

Saratoga has had 183 equine deaths directly related to Training/Racing since records have been kept since 2009
There has been 13 thus far in the 2023 meet. Averaging about 13 deaths in 8 weeks over the past 15 years
There was 14 in 2022
There was 11 in 2021
There was 17 in 2020
There was 13 in 2019
There was 12 in 2018

Saratoga has had 101 injuries related to racing and training since records have been kept in 2009.
Injuries are mainly leg/tendon injuries if noted

Once thing I noticed is lack of continuity in the record keeping. Records going back to 2009 indicating a follow up investigation have never been re-updated. Many records for horses who were pulled up and/or vanned off have no follow up information (injury, euthanasia, etc). Some that do have follow ups have minimal info or seem to be trainers words; not actual follow ups from a licensed veterinarian

If we are using data to make decisions for the betterment of the horses and the long term viability of the sport; its imperative to have details on why a horse was a vanned off and follow-up veterinarian assessment of a situation and documentation on file as such. Maybe they do but the details are not needed for the public. But one would thing that the equine death and breakdown data files are used for this purposed and if the data is not concise across the board; how is progress being made.

Of the records;
Belmont has the most incidents (training/Racing related and otherwise) at 1,051
Aqueduct has 851
Finger Lakes at 684
Saratoga sits at 574 records of incidents

[Poll_Alias]

The information is available to those that need it.

[smoofox]

@Mara

And the following week’s Sports Illustrated had a frame-by-frame color spread of the tragedy, complete with a full page photo of the veterinarian, loaded syringe in hand, tending to the filly.

It took too long, but the networks finally figured out that no one in the viewing audience, save for a few ghoulish sociopaths, wants to see a doomed horse struggling across the track on three legs. They cut away pretty quickly if possible and don’t revisit the scene endlessly. A respectful update and interview with a vet are all we ask for.

I actually had that Sports Illustrated for the BC coverage but Go For Wand’s breakdown was front and center… … and I did not keep it.

The only “good” picture out of that sequence was the distressed outrider in his red jacket… kneeling on GTW’s neck to help keep her down… holding onto the side of her bridle and tipping her head slightly… knowing there was nothing that could be done.

I also remember Mr. Nickerson collapsing and Shaker Knit falling over him…

[Laurierace]

I don’t know if one single person that is even remotely associated with the racing industry who is asking why. As for doing something about it. What do you do?

[snaffle1987]

Maybe YOU have done things to improve the safety of the horses in your care and are doing extra vet checks, soundness exams, trusting your instincts, etc. That is excellent.

But there are horses listed on the NYRA breakdown reports that DO have follow ups posted. They suffered Condylar Fractures and Tendon/Ligament injuries and have follow ups that indicated they returned to racing at a later time.
I understand that these horses are an investment and many players want a return on that investment. But the tendon and ligament injuries that I saw were listed for these horses are the same type of tendon and ligament injuries that prevent hunter/jumpers from ever stepping foot over a fence again. They are also the same type of injuries listed in TB rehoming posts as the root cause for a horse to be a “pleasure mount only, dressage/flatwork”.

But yet these horses with previous fractures and key tendon/ligament damage that would jeopardize long term soundness and support of the leg structure and yet they returning to the track down the road.

Now, I am not saying that the horses in the recent instances at Saratoga had any instance of this occurring. I don’t have access to their history, surgical procedures, injuries, layoffs, training, medications, regular exams. I am just taking note of the data that I am able to see and review. And I believe NYRA goes above and beyond many other tracks with the amount of veterinarians they have on staff and the quick action if they do catch a potential soundness concern in the post-parades, etc.

As far as myself, I don’t owe you an explanation of what I do in my personal life. But I think uncomfortable conversations are worthy in progressing the potential improvements for the quality of life and long term health of racehorses.

[smoofox]

@snaffle1987

As far as myself, I don’t owe you an explanation of what I do in my personal life. But I think uncomfortable conversations are worthy in progressing the potential improvements for the quality of life and long term health of racehorses.

To be fair, your posts in the Racing forum often tend to accuse and lecture… point fingers and pontificate… and have at times related things that were less than… accurate. Despite suggested expertise on a variety of issues - from yearling sales to to breeding farms to breakdowns.

“Uncomfortable conversations” (as you put it) often seem to be the entire point - while dismissing the actual expertise, insight, concerns and experience of others.

Just a few things to consider in the rush to condemn…

[Laurierace]

I wasn’t asking what YOU do, I was asking what to do. You said nobody is doing anything so I was curious what you thought they should be doing that they were not. If you think they are not having follow up checks after being injured however you aren’t paying attention. Never at any point in history has there been more frequent and more thorough soundness exams than there is now.

[endlessclimb]

This was found on facebook, but if this is true - yikes. Also, there are ideas running around that the shorter distances are causing more breakdowns, due to the faster nature of the work.

I have no proof of that, but the extra forces needed to propel the animal down the track on a shorter distance make sense. But I don’t think that’s where all of the breakdowns have occurred, right?

[MsM]

Interesting article: https://paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/casner-synthetic-tracks-are-safer-heres-why/?fbclid=IwAR17kJbffoVjFn2eF2x_aonK3kF-e3jJuKk3YSxCD0zExd9ZmUyRElBZ-WY

[Maythehorsebewithme]

Similarly:

`We're Not Going to Have to Worry About Tradition. We're Going to Be History.'...

Note: I am only a racing fan, not actively involved (unless you count my teeny ownership in a MyRacehorse), so have zero special knowledge. Would like to hear the opinions of others on this board who breed/train/race.

[skydy]

Bolding mine

@snaffle1987

But there are horses listed on the NYRA breakdown reports that DO have follow ups posted. They suffered Condylar Fractures and Tendon/Ligament injuries and have follow ups that indicated they returned to racing at a later time.

Do you have any information regarding the breakdown or re-injury rate of the horses you are mentioning? If not, your research is pointless.

I understand that these horses are an investment and many players want a return on that investment. But the tendon and ligament injuries that I saw were listed for these horses are the same type of tendon and ligament injuries that prevent hunter/jumpers from ever stepping foot over a fence again. They are also the same type of injuries listed in TB rehoming posts as the root cause for a horse to be a “pleasure mount only, dressage/flatwork”.

But yet these horses with previous fractures and key tendon/ligament damage that would jeopardize long term soundness and support of the leg structure and yet they returning to the track down the road.

Some of those horses also go on to eventing homes.

Now, I am not saying that the horses in the recent instances at Saratoga had any instance of this occurring. I don’t have access to their history, surgical procedures, injuries, layoffs, training, medications, regular exams. I am just taking note of the data that I am able to see and review.

The trainer, their veterinarians, and the track veterinarians do have access to that information.

And I believe NYRA goes above and beyond many other tracks with the amount of veterinarians they have on staff and the quick action if they do catch a potential soundness concern in the post-parades, etc.

Why do you believe that the NYRA (which is not a “track”) has more veterinarians on staff than other State racing associations? Are you confusing the NYRA with Saratoga? Do you believe that Saratoga has more veterinarians at the track than say, Churchill Downs?

[Lah0808]

That was a very interesting interview, thanks for sharing it.

[LaurieB]

@snaffle1987

But there are horses listed on the NYRA breakdown reports that DO have follow ups posted. They suffered Condylar Fractures and Tendon/Ligament injuries and have follow ups that indicated they returned to racing at a later time.
I understand that these horses are an investment and many players want a return on that investment. But the tendon and ligament injuries that I saw were listed for these horses are the same type of tendon and ligament injuries that prevent hunter/jumpers from ever stepping foot over a fence again. They are also the same type of injuries listed in TB rehoming posts as the root cause for a horse to be a “pleasure mount only, dressage/flatwork”.

Just an FYI, all condylar fractures aren’t the same. Nor are all tendon or ligament injuries. Depending on the specific problem, there are different treatments, different available therapies, and different recovery times. Despite your confidence in your keyboard diagnostic skills, it’s impossible for you to know as much about those horses’ injuries and prognoses as their owners and vets do.

[Pronzini]

Not everyone with a keyboard knows what they are talking about…and I will leave it at that.