Weight gain

[impressive_gunner92]

This post is going to have a bunch of questions in it, so please bear with me. My gelding is 25 and sprained his suspensory ligament. Before he sprained it, he went to a week of the county’s 4h horseshow and was amazing. While he was there, he dropped a little bit of weight. It was nothing major, and I thought it was just the stress of being away from home. Now he’s back home and won’t put the weight back on, no matter what i seem to do

he gets 1 quart of tribute senior, 1/4 quart of tributes calm and easy, and as much grass hay as he wants to eat twice a day, plus a joint supplement from smartpak. He goes out into a large pasture daily as well (the grass is horribly dry as I haven’t had any rain in 2+ weeks :mad:)

I don’t know if he isn’t gaining weight because he isn’t working right now, or if it’s an age thing. Sometimes you can’t see rib at all, when he walks you can sometimes see a tiny outline of rib, and when he’s trotting you can see two ribs almost the whole time. His top line is not great since he isn’t working, but his butt and neck have held there muscle so far

The dentist was out 2 months ago but she’s coming back next month to check on his teeth

He also has special diet requirements because of his chronic kidney disease, which is currently not affecting him, and is stable

does anyone have any suggestions on what to do, what this could be from, or words of encouragement? Thanks so much!

[FraggleRock]

Have you tried feeding him more…?
You say he won’t gain no matter what, but what have you tried so far?

As much hay as he wants twice a day- what does his mean, how many lbs and how long does he has access to this hay? If he’s out all day in the pasture does he have hay to eat out there as well?

Read you feed tags, he likely should be eating 5-6 or maybe even 8/10lbs of feed a day. Feed by weight not quarts. It sounds like he’s quite possibly just not getting enough food.

[impressive_gunner92]

@FraggleRock

Have you tried feeding him more…?
You say he won’t gain no matter what, but what have you tried so far?

As much hay as he wants twice a day- what does his mean, how many lbs and how long does he has access to this hay? If he’s out all day in the pasture does he have hay to eat out there as well?

Read you feed tags, he likely should be eating 5-6 or maybe even 8/10lbs of feed a day. Feed by weight not quarts. It sounds like he’s quite possibly just not getting enough food.

I can weigh it all tomorrow. He used to be on 3/4 of a quart twice a day, so almost doubled his grain intake. He is stalled from about 8 at night until 6 in the morning, and is given as much hay as he’ll eat, which seems to be around three flakes (he really doesn’t love hay) there is hay given out in the pasture, usually about two bales are spread in the dry lot that connects to the large grass pasture. I’ve also been adding in cool calories to his feed, and I haven’t seen much of a difference.

I’ve tried increasing hay, no luck as he doesn’t like it, I’ve tried vegetable oil, and senior weight gain supplement. Sadly there isn’t much available that he is allowed to have, most of it has added calcium and phosphorus which is damaging to his kidneys

He only likes second cut hay, which he is not allowed to have, so his hay intake isn’t nearly what I would like it to be, but he definitely has the appiteite for more grain. I just was thinking that that may be too much starch

[tinah]

He’s 25, with a suspensory issue, and kidney disease? I wouldn’t be trying to put weight on him at all. That’s the last thing he needs. You might want to revisit your pain management plan with your vet.
if he was mine, I would assess him very, very carefully before the cold weather comes in. He’s given humans lots of good years, and it’s your obligation to not keep him alive and in pain, regardless of your own feelings.

[dressager]

I agree with the above poster BUT it’s it’s still decided he needs to gain weight you could try some hay replacement- like soaked Timothy pellets. I’ve seen older horses who have issues digesting the hay do tremendously better on soaked pellets than hay.

[JB]

@impressive_gunner92

he gets 1 quart of tribute senior, 1/4 quart of tributes calm and easy, and as much grass hay as he wants to eat twice a day, plus a joint supplement from smartpak. He goes out into a large pasture daily as well (the grass is horribly dry as I haven’t had any rain in 2+ weeks :mad:)

He gets 2qt Sr and 1/2qt KNE a day? Is there a reason you’re mixing the 2, especially such a low amount of the KNE?

2qt Sr is probably half what he should be getting from a nutritional perspective, and .5qt KNE pretty insignificant

I don’t know if he isn’t gaining weight because he isn’t working right now, or if it’s an age thing. Sometimes you can’t see rib at all, when he walks you can sometimes see a tiny outline of rib, and when he’s trotting you can see two ribs almost the whole time. His top line is not great since he isn’t working, but his butt and neck have held there muscle so far

His weight sounds perfect.

He also has special diet requirements because of his chronic kidney disease, which is currently not affecting him, and is stable

What are his requirements? I mean, I know you have concerns about added calcium and phosphorous, but what should his entire diet stay below in terms of total amounts?

More grain may or may not mean more starch. Tribute Seniority is 19.5% NSC - not all that low. That’s assuming the pelleted - if you’re using the textured, that’s 24%.

KNE is 14.3% for the pelleted, and 16.6% for the textured.

So no, I wouldn’t really be increasing the Sr.

If you can get Triple Crown Sr, that’s only 11.7% NSC, so you could feed more, but without knowing the real ca/phos restrictions…

I’m not sure what the difference is between increasing a feed which contains quality sources of ca/phos, or increasing hay which contains ca/phos.

[candyappy]

It might be that where he once had decent pasture to eat all day , now due to dry conditions and the fact that it is late August the grass is losing it quality and you are seeing the effects of that.
If he doesn’t make up for the shortfall by consuming more hay you are fighting a downhill battle.

Also be prepared that at 25 he may not eat much more concentrates even though you offer them. Why can’t he have the 2nd cut hay?

[tazycat]

Don’t get why he can’t have second cut hay what’s the deal with that?? TC senior is good feed for putting on weight,being your boy is 25 might help him.

[impressive_gunner92]

@tinah

He’s 25, with a suspensory issue, and kidney disease? I wouldn’t be trying to put weight on him at all. That’s the last thing he needs. You might want to revisit your pain management plan with your vet.
if he was mine, I would assess him very, very carefully before the cold weather comes in. He’s given humans lots of good years, and it’s your obligation to not keep him alive and in pain, regardless of your own feelings.

He’s still a very happy boy, and is one of the healthiest seniors I’ve met, the suspensory issue is just a sprain from playing with the young horses, which gives you an idea about how spunky he still is! It’s definitely not his time to go yet, but when it is I definitely will make the choice to keep him pain free, he’s lived with chronic kidney disease since he was very young, sadly it was something he was born with. He didn’t display any signs until he was about 5 (that’s what his old owner said at least)

[impressive_gunner92]

@dressager

I agree with the above poster BUT it’s it’s still decided he needs to gain weight you could try some hay replacement- like soaked Timothy pellets. I’ve seen older horses who have issues digesting the hay do tremendously better on soaked pellets than hay.

Okay! Thank you

[impressive_gunner92]

@JB

He gets 2qt Sr and 1/2qt KNE a day? Is there a reason you’re mixing the 2, especially such a low amount of the KNE?

2qt Sr is probably half what he should be getting from a nutritional perspective, and .5qt KNE pretty insignificant

His weight sounds perfect.

What are his requirements? I mean, I know you have concerns about added calcium and phosphorous, but what should his entire diet stay below in terms of total amounts?

More grain may or may not mean more starch. Tribute Seniority is 19.5% NSC - not all that low. That’s assuming the pelleted - if you’re using the textured, that’s 24%.

KNE is 14.3% for the pelleted, and 16.6% for the textured.

So no, I wouldn’t really be increasing the Sr.

If you can get Triple Crown Sr, that’s only 11.7% NSC, so you could feed more, but without knowing the real ca/phos restrictions…

I’m not sure what the difference is between increasing a feed which contains quality sources of ca/phos, or increasing hay which contains ca/phos.

The KNE is Because he enjoys it much more than the senior, it’s not for anything nutritiona. I actually don’t know the number requirements for calcium and phosphorus . His diet is what was recommend to me by the equine vet at the hospital he goes too. I could easily add more grain, if he isn’t getting enough of it, but he was always an easy keeper up until now

[impressive_gunner92]

@candyappy

It might be that where he once had decent pasture to eat all day , now due to dry conditions and the fact that it is late August the grass is losing it quality and you are seeing the effects of that.
If he doesn’t make up for the shortfall by consuming more hay you are fighting a downhill battle.

Also be prepared that at 25 he may not eat much more concentrates even though you offer them. Why can’t he have the 2nd cut hay?

He really isn’t a fan of hay, I’m not sure why, as it’s good quality grass hay, all the other horses love it. He’ll eat as much grain as a put in front of him, which is great when I need to add weight (and for telling when he isn’t feeling well)

the reason no second cut cut is because it has too much protein. The vet at the equine hospital has told me that it’s not worth managing the protein in his grain, since it isn’t as big of a contributing factor to his diet as the hay would be. Clover and alfalfa puts added strain of his kidneys. It’s all very technical and I sadly don’t understand all of it

[impressive_gunner92]

@tazycat

Don’t get why he can’t have second cut hay what’s the deal with that?? TC senior is good feed for putting on weight,being your boy is 25 might help him.

2nd cut has too much protein, which he can’t have because of his kidneys. And okay! Thank you

[tazycat]

@impressive_gunner92

2nd cut has too much protein, which he can’t have because of his kidneys. And okay! Thank you

I have picky eaters and the TC senior is one feed they’ll eat. If you do use TC go by directions on bag. I fed as much as 8 lbs. My horses have a limit on how much they’ll consume in a feeding.

Have a old guy thats 32 maybe 33 that’s on tc senior. He’s gained close to a 100 pounds now. Can feed it soaked so even easier for them to digest.

Can you give probiotics? Might be worth checking into really has help my oldie. Another thing have you had him checked for ulcers? Loose teeth can also make them not want to eat hay. Makes it painful so they perfer grain over hay. The tc senior can replace hay.

[JB]

@impressive_gunner92

The KNE is Because he enjoys it much more than the senior, it’s not for anything nutritiona. I actually don’t know the number requirements for calcium and phosphorus . His diet is what was recommend to me by the equine vet at the hospital he goes too. I could easily add more grain, if he isn’t getting enough of it, but he was always an easy keeper up until now

Until you find out what the real ca/phos requirements are, you can’t really formulate any changes to his diet You need to find out if there’s a total daily intake limit, or a limit per “sitting”, ie an upper limit on how much a given meal of concentrates provides, etc.

[Heinz_57]

@impressive_gunner92

The KNE is Because he enjoys it much more than the senior, it’s not for anything nutritiona. I actually don’t know the number requirements for calcium and phosphorus . His diet is what was recommend to me by the equine vet at the hospital he goes too. I could easily add more grain, if he isn’t getting enough of it, but he was always an easy keeper up until now

The best thing to do in this situation, given his special needs, is to call the hospital and speak to the vet that has worked his case. They should be able to advise you on the best way to add calories that will still fit within his needs.

[impressive_gunner92]

@tazycat

I have picky eaters and the TC senior is one feed they’ll eat. If you do use TC go by directions on bag. I fed as much as 8 lbs. My horses have a limit on how much they’ll consume in a feeding.

Have a old guy thats 32 maybe 33 that’s on tc senior. He’s gained close to a 100 pounds now. Can feed it soaked so even easier for them to digest.

Can you give probiotics? Might be worth checking into really has help my oldie. Another thing have you had him checked for ulcers? Loose teeth can also make them not want to eat hay. Makes it painful so they perfer grain over hay. The tc senior can replace hay.

I can try and get TC senior! And wow that’s a lot! I think I can do probiotics, I can email my vet and ask. I haven’t had him checked for ulcers, but I certainly can. The debris was just out, and is coming out again soon. He’ll eat hay, he,d just much rather have the grain