Any thoughts on weight loss in a 13-year-old 17.1 hh Appendix-type QH gelding? Estimated body condition of 4. Currently fed 6 lbs Purina Ultium, 3 lb alfalfa pellets, 1 cup veg oil and 22 lbs decent grass hay daily. Also on Elevate for Vitamin E deficiency and daily Previcox for neck arthritis. Ridden very little, approximately once or twice a week for 30 minutes and gets daily turnout but no grass. Started losing in June. Teeth are good, Succeed ulcer test negative. Fecal test was positive and was dewormed with Quest Plus. Negative for Cushings and Lyme. He does have melanomas around tail and gums. Appetite and energy level are good. Appreciate any thoughts on what could be wrong.
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Do another fecal to make sure you fixed the worm issue. Vet should know correct timing relative to the product you used last.
Then I’d consider whether you are providing enough pain relief for the neck arthritis. Chronic pain can do a number on them.
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How much does he weigh? 22lb of hay sounds low - that’s only 2% for a horse who weighs 1100lb, and I guarantee he weighs more than that
Decent grass hay - how long has he been on this hay - this batch?
When was the QP used? That would take care of everything of significance.
Melanomas around the tail likely means there are some internal - has a vet ever palpated him?
13yo and weight loos would have me testing for PPID, and now is the perfect time for the ACTH test. If you can’t get that done now - like in the next couple weeks - then get the TRH test done after the end of November. Don’t do the ACTH test then, it’s not nearly as reliable, especially if PPID is in the early stages.
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sadly, you’d be surprised how many vets don’t know any of that 
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Why so little hay?
He weighs about 1400 lb. A Purina feed rep thought he was definitely underweight but was getting more than enough calories through the Ultium and hay (weighed and analyzed). He is at a boarding barn so I don’t have a lot of control over the hay but it was analyzed and considered good quality. He leaves a lot of the second cut behind but cleans up the first cut, which definitely does not have the same level of nutrition. QP was used about 2 weeks ago. Thought about the melanoma - vet thought internal melanomas severe enough to affect his weight would cause him to be at least a little colicky. ACTH test was done about 3 weeks ago and was normal. Thank you for your thoughts!
I don’t have much control over the hay since he is at a boarding barn, but the Purina feed rep felt that that Ultium plus the amount and quality of hay he is getting should be more than enough calories and should not be causing the weight loss.
Maybe if he’s leaving a portion of his hay uneaten that is related to the weight loss?
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The simple solution to try first is: feed as much as he will eat of the hay he prefers. Don’t worry about nutrition levels in the hay. Horses get calories from fermenting the fiber in their hind gut. You have the minerals and vitamins covered in the other feed anyhow I assume.
How do you know the first cut has less nutrition than the second cut, and what do you mean by nutrition? Calories? Protein? Vitamins and Minerals? Carbs? Have you tested the hay?
Feed him as much as he wants of the hay he prefers.
I’m also curious to see a photo. Is it weight loss or muscle loss? If he’s not in work you can lose muscle and topline.
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Of course the feed rep is going to tell you it’s ok to underfeed forage and replace it with their feed. That doesn’t make it a good idea.
If it was my horse I’d talk to the barn owner and see if you can pay extra to get more hay fed or just ask if you can bring in your own. He should have grass in front of him at all times and then once that happens and if he still needs to gain weight then I’d start adding alfalfa.
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6lb Ultium is (if you believe their 1900cal/lb) 11,400 calories.
1c oil is 2000
22lb decent grass hay is 17,600-19,800 (I’ll use 18,000)
3lb alf pellets is 3000
That’s a rough total of 32,600 calories.
That is within what the NRC says the average 1400lb horse needs. But, those are averages, and some horses need more to a lot more than what they “should” need. So, there’s that.
I might have missed it, but did you say when this current batch of hay started? Just trying to see how it relates to the start of the weight loss in June.
Can you post the hay analysis? Or, can you find it, and list the DE/MCal, and the ADF and NDF?
If he’s leaving “a lot of the second cut”, that may be the real issue - he’s not actually eating 22lb of hay
how normal was the ACTH test?
Did I miss the rep telling her to feed more Ultium? I don’t seem to be able to find that.
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Well obviously it isn’t enough hay and if it isn’t related to the melanomas, I would think that maybe going to all first cut and giving him a lot more of it will probably do the job. No matter how good the 2nd cut is reported to be it doesn’t do him any good if he won’t eat it.
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That’s what I was figuring with the calories and why I was wondering what else can contribute to weight loss that we haven’t already considered. I only have RFV numbers on the hay (95 for second cut; 89 for first cut). I’m not sure when the current batch started. It’s always purchased from the same farmer? I just don’t know if the hay is the issue when none of the other horses in the barn have been affected. He sometimes leaves the second cut behind in the mornings as he is anxious for turnout - but is thrown first cut hay during turnout. All to say I’m quite sure he is eating at least 22 lb. I do not have a number for the ACTH test but I can find out - vet just said it was in normal range. And you are correct, I did not say the Purina rep said it was OK to underfed forage and replace it with feed, he said he was getting an appropriate number of calories for his size. Thank you for your thoughts!
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Chronic pain from the neck arthritis is something I didn’t consider … that is possible … thank you
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Since I do self board, my mantra is No Wasted Hay. If my vacuum cleaner easy keeper mare goes off a given hay batch I trust her, and switch out hay, even if other horses are happy with it.
If I am looking after a more anorexic horse like some OTTB I give them a huge hay net so they can pick away at it 24/7 without it getting mixed up in bedding and poop.
If he is too anxious to eat in the morning he should get that hay in a net overnight. Then just a taste in the morning if he has finished his net, and a big breakfast in turnout.
I still am curious about what weight loss means. Can you see ribs? Or is it just off his neck and back?
How TB is he? IME TBs who are in chronic pain, not being worked, kept up in stalla/turnouts can rapidly lose muscle and weight and look really really sad very fast.
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He is stabled at a boarding barn so I do not have a lot of control over when he gets fed. Unfortunately they don’t keep hay in front of him 24/7 as I would; however, this hasn’t changed in the 5 years he has been there nor has the amount of exercise, turnout, etc. (I do have the option of bringing him home and turning him out with my retirees and I could monitor his feed and hay input, but having another horse at home in PA winter is not my first choice if I can figure out what is going on with him.) He is not TB, actually a registered QH. A big boy who was never fat but never skinny as he is now. Body condition about 4 - yes, can see ribs where in June you could not. Poor top line and thin neck. My vet said, “skeletal, but not emaciated.” (Ugh) I will look for a picture.
That’s not a skeletal horse. His general body weight is fine. Obesity is the biggest health threat to most North American horses.
However, he does have that sad losing topline older horse look going on especially if he’s meant to be a QH chonk and is only 13. Neck pain is absolutely going to affect topline and movement. Can he be ridden more? Does he have ulcers?
I’d look at his chronic pain levels and also at protein levels if he’s losing muscle.
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That doesn’t mean there aren’t hind gut issues, and doesn’t mean there aren’t gastric issues.
Have you seen any signs of quidding? Any chance you’ve notice any changes in his manure, like size of piles, or any increase in the size of hay particles?
Full workup with speculum?
Has any body work been done, taking into account the neck arthritis? TMJ issues?
It must be a decent picture then because he does look much thinner in person. Was never obese or even fat, but has dropped 2-300 pounds since June. Not a stocky QH type. How do you determine chronic pain levels?
