Glad you found the problem. Since the breaker was arcing inside (buzzing) it probably needed to be replaced anyway.
I’m a little worried about the crimp connector, especially since it was made smaller. Current carrying capacity of a conductor is directly proportional to its surface area.
Also, a little worried about the crimp-on connector itself, and the tool that crimped it. I don’t know the amperage of a 3hp pump off the top of my head, but it’s not exactly a light load.
I would probably have put pigtails (that can be changed to the next pressure switch) using a two sided Burndy for the removable connection. Any electrical supplier (not box store) should have them in all sizes. http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/en/US/adirect/burndy?cmd=catProductDetail&showAddButton=true&productID=BIBD2504&bcs=-1%08%23%23%08%23%23%08http%3A%2F%2Fecat.burndy.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Fburndy%3Fcmd%3DcatLanding%08%23%23%08true%08%070%08602382%2F603178%2F603179*%08Aluminum%08http%3A%2F%2Fecat.burndy.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Fburndy%3Fcmd%3DcatDisplayStyle%26DispStyle%3DSingleLevelCategory%26catKey%3D603179%08%23%23%08false%08%070%08602382%2F603178%2F603179%2F603180%2F**%08Insulated%08http%3A%2F%2Fecat.burndy.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Fburndy%3Fcmd%3DcatDisplayStyle%26DispStyle%3DSingleLevelCategory%26catKey%3D603180%08%23%23%08false%08%070%08602382%2F603178%2F603179%2F603180%2F611557**%08Clear+Insulated+Multiple+Tap+Connectors%08http%3A%2F%2Fecat.burndy.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Fburndy%3Fcmd%3DcatDisplayStyle%26DispStyle%3DSingleLevelCategory%26catKey%3D611557%08%23%23%08false%08
[QUOTE=gumtree;8528885]
Good advise. But the chances of “muscles contact and lock you to the shorted out device” this happening with a 120 line is slim to none. ][/QUOTE]
you stated the pump was 230 three phase
Pump is 230 volt, 3hp. Spare was rated for that.
my concern was based upon several things that were posted that kind of jumped about which to me did not make sense
[QUOTE=Tom King;8529075]
I would probably have put pigtails (that can be changed to the next pressure switch) using a two sided Burndy for the removable connection. Any electrical supplier (not box store) should have them in all sizes. http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/en/US/adirect/burndy?cmd=catProductDetail&showAddButton=true&productID=BIBD2504&bcs=-1%08%23%23%08%23%23%08http%3A%2F%2Fecat.burndy.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Fburndy%3Fcmd%3DcatLanding%08%23%23%08true%08%070%08602382%2F603178%2F603179*%08Aluminum%08http%3A%2F%2Fecat.burndy.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Fburndy%3Fcmd%3DcatDisplayStyle%26DispStyle%3DSingleLevelCategory%26catKey%3D603179%08%23%23%08false%08%070%08602382%2F603178%2F603179%2F603180%2F**%08Insulated%08http%3A%2F%2Fecat.burndy.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Fburndy%3Fcmd%3DcatDisplayStyle%26DispStyle%3DSingleLevelCategory%26catKey%3D603180%08%23%23%08false%08%070%08602382%2F603178%2F603179%2F603180%2F611557**%08Clear+Insulated+Multiple+Tap+Connectors%08http%3A%2F%2Fecat.burndy.com%3A80%2FComergent%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Fburndy%3Fcmd%3DcatDisplayStyle%26DispStyle%3DSingleLevelCategory%26catKey%3D611557%08%23%23%08false%08[/QUOTE]
“(not box store)”
This is not necessary true depends on location and local demand.
I live in a big Ag-and rural building area. A lot of DIYers. My local “box store” carries a lot of things that were not available in the same stores when I lived in more of a suburban area. They even cater to the Amish community.
You’re right! I’d bet an electrical supplier would be cheaper though, if you live in a state where people off the street can buy stuff in such a store. Here, wire is about half the price in Electrical Equipment of what it is in Home Depot in the same town.
I’m staring to be worried about the crimped terminal myself. Starting amps on the pump are something like 38 (?). I remember that it was very high because our 8kw generator only produced 42 amps, and when everything was running off it 20 years ago, I had to turn off the house in order to run the well.
I used lineman’s pliers to do the crimp, and I’m not the strongest person on earth.
Two of the wires are solid copper and two are braided copper. According to my wire stripper, the solid wires with insulation show as 10 gauge; the braided ones may be eight gauge or ten gauge. I didn’t bother to measure them.
I am seriously thinking about changing the terminals and will need pigtails or something similar. I don’t have a lot of spare wire to play with, and the ones I have are very rigid and hard to work with. One thing, though is that pigtails are supposed to be six inches long. The pump electrics are all in the weather and only protected by the manufacturer boxes and covers.
Unfortunately, we don’t have either an electrical supply house or a big box store here. There is one place I meant to check before I bought, but forgot.
Would something like this work (the bottom ones)? http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/82/82ecd9da-7335-4a07-853c-5598dc033ec9.pdf
I’m assuming three conductors.
The pigtails would need to be the same size as the wires coming from the pump. The silicone plugs pop out so you can get to the lugs. You use an Allen wrench to tighten the bolt on the lug, then put the silicone plugs back in on top of the Allen bolt head.
Lineman’s pliers are a no-go for any kind of electrical crimp connection.
Use some kind of “deox” on copper wires in aluminum lugs: http://www.ilsco.com/e2wShoppingCatalog.aspx?parentId=3100012691
Maybe a better, cheaper, and simpler alternative would be a wooden “wrench” to twist the wires around with. 10 ga. is not that bad. Pm me your address, and I’ll make one to send to you. It would just be a small piece of Oak with a slot in one side that will slip over the wire so you can easily bend it into place.
The pump pressure switch is wired with two negatives on the outside and the two positives on the inside. The negatives are the copper braided wire; the positives are solid copper. There is no ground wire that I can see with the pressure switch; never has been one. The well was set up outside and the basic system hasn’t been changed for about 30 years, except for one pump motor.
So you are recommending a direct connection of wires to the screws?
I do wish this pressure switch had clamp connections. It would make things so much easier.
What was the exact issue with being able to hook it back up like it was originally. I may be missing something.
The positive and negative doesn’t make any sense. You have two hot wires coming in, and two going to the pump when the switch closes the circuit. Surely it’s not a DC system running a 3 hp pump.
In AC power any color wire except white, gray or green may be used in a conduit to carry ungrounded power
Black and Red (or two blacks or two Reds) are commonly used as ungrounded power conductor
There are two white wires–braided copper that was very frayed; and two red solid copper wires. I just assumed the red ones were the positive side and the white ones were negatives, because I was thinking of a normal circuit that needs both positive and negative to work. Or maybe I should say that one line brings the power into the switch and the other takes it back out when the switch is closed. (Or am I just showing my total ignorance?) I needed to redo the connectors on the white side because there were lots of broken wires at the connection.
I’ve just checked the Square D/Pumptrol wiring diagram for these switches, and both reds belong together in the middle and the whites on both outsides. The two middle wires go to the motor; the two outside ones are “lines”, which must mean the hot wires that you were talking about.
There are two white wires–
unless these whites were marked with Black tape those whites are Neutrals…not power.
If these actually are hot legs they should be banded with Black Tape to indicate that they are intended to be hot legs.
My guess is the original installation was a 120 volt then was changed to 240 VAC… that would explain why you have Black and White conductors (White would have gone to the neutral bar the black to a breaker, when upgraded the white would have been removed from the neutral bar and placed on a breaker)
Also what you are referring to as Braided wire I believe you actually have Stranded (could be twisted stranded)
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8530692]
There are two white wires–braided copper that was very frayed; and two red solid copper wires. I just assumed the red ones were the positive side and the white ones were negatives, because I was thinking of a normal circuit that needs both positive and negative to work. Or maybe I should say that one line brings the power into the switch and the other takes it back out when the switch is closed. (Or am I just showing my total ignorance?) I needed to redo the connectors on the white side because there were lots of broken wires at the connection.
I’ve just checked the Square D/Pumptrol wiring diagram for these switches, and both reds belong together in the middle and the whites on both outsides. The two middle wires go to the motor; the two outside ones are “lines”, which must mean the hot wires that you were talking about.[/QUOTE]
To clarify the “trade terms” being use for you and others who maybe reading this.
In the ‘trade’ wires are called conductors
Standard wiring for a 120 consists of contains 3 ‘wires’ 2 are the ‘conductors’ one is black, (hot) one is white the trade term is Neutral, but to us layman it can be called called negative. Not technically correct. Its a negative wire on a DC setup which is what most people are familiar with. The 3rd wire the bare copper wire is the ground.
Cables come in different gauges. 14-2, 12-2, 10-2 etc. The first number is the gauge the second number the number of conductors, PLUS the ground wire which is not referred to as a “conductor”. So there are 3 “wires” to work with.
Then there is 14-3, 12-3 ect. 3 conductors, black, red and white plus the ground. Used to wire a 2 way light switch and other things.
Up until 15-20 years ago? All cables regardless of gauge where white. Since then the gauge of the wire is color coded. Older houses, pre 60s? pre-plastic sheathed had different types of ‘jackets’.
14 gauge white, 12, yellow, 10 orange, 8, red. Good change, makes it easier to make sure the correct wire is being used for the correct use. And I would bet it makes it much easier for the Code inspector to check things.
The voltage at the Panel is 220-240. The panel has 2 ‘legs’ each carrying 120. A 120 breaker/line ‘taps half’ by 'snapping into one leg and only using one wire/conductor on the breaker the black ‘hot’ wire and the white wire/conductor goes to the neural ‘bus bar’. The ground wire to grounding bus. The ground bus has a large copper wire that goes outside the house and attached to the grounding rod/s in the ground.
A 220 breaker taps both legs and has 2 hot wires/conductors. The smallest wire/conductor used on a 220 line is 12-2. As Clanter said, when running a 220 line the white wire should have black electrical tape on the wire coming out of the breaker and at the connection at the other end. So anyone working on the line in the future knows it is a “hot” wire/conductor not a neutral/negative non “hot” wire.
The pressure switches I have replaced/installed on a 1.5 hp submersible pump use 220 and a 12-2 wire from the panel to the switch. The two ‘legs’ of the 12-2 wire are attached to the 220 breaker, one black and the black tapped white wire.
The pressure switch I use has 4 screws to attach the ‘hot’ wires’. The supply/power wires go on ‘outside’ screws on either side. The wire going to the control box are attached to the 2 remaining ‘inside’ screws. There should be 2 green ground screws on the ‘body’ of the pressure switch. One for the supply ground and one for the wire going to the control box. There are no “neutral/negative” wires on the 220 line. Other than the ground wire.
There are 3 wires (not counting the ground) coming out of the Pump Control to the well pump. But you are not dealing with that side.
You are running a big pump at 3 hp. Which needs a lot of power. So should think without checking spec it requires a 10-2 conductor/wire from the panel. Maybe and 8-2 a big wire to work with.
I am also assuming this is a submersible pump? A well with a 1200 head/rise needs be pretty darn big pump which draws a lot of power.
As you pointed out you have different colored wire, no white/taped white. Doesn’t matter still the same. In your case the Black wire coming from the 220 breaker goes on the out side screw, the black wire going to the control box goes next to it. The same on the other side with the red wires. The Red supply wire also attached to the 220 breaker on the outside screw, the red wire to the control box on the inside screw.
The above is a ‘simple’ explanation of things. There’s a bit more to it.
Thanks, gumtree. I will go back to direct connections if at all possible. In my setup, the white stranded wires are the supply wires and are very thick and hard to work with The red wires go to the pump control box/pump motor. They are also very thick, solid and hard to bend.
I think the newer Pumptrol GSG2 switches have clamps, but am not sure. The breakers certainly do.
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