Well electricity problem--thoughts?

[vineyridge]

Yesterday, my well tripped the circuit breaker. I opened the pressure switch, cleaned it thoroughly, removed a resident wolf spider, used a nail file to clean the contacts, and reset the breaker. The well came on immediately. I have a 1000 gallon pressure tank, and don’t use all that much water.

This afternoon the breaker was tripped again. I checked the pressure switch, and it looked as if nothing had changed. When I reset the breaker, there was a buzzing noise in the breaker box, and it immediately tripped. I tried it one more time, buzzing came, so I turned the breaker off.

Does this sound like a bad breaker or a bad pressure switch or a bad pump motor?

I can replace the pressure switch and the breaker myself, but the pump motor is going to require a very expensive professional.

One more question: if I do replace the pressure switch, would I be wrong to clamp a circle connector to the wires, instead of connecting them directly to the screw. The wires are very thick, two are solid, and they are hell to work with. I was thinking that if I put a circle connector on the wire ends, it would be much easier to replace pressure switches in the future.

[AKB]

How old is your well pump? Ours seems to need replacement every 10-15 years.

[vineyridge]

I don’t remember. It’s at least ten years old, though.

[Bluey]

Here, in our semi-desert, wells are sacred and no one but a licensed well man touches them and they generally, if not certified for electric, get an electrician for that part.
Then, our wells are three phase and carry a big punch.

How deep is your well and how many gallons a minute?

I am surprised you have such a large pressure tank.
Ours is not very large, maybe 50 gallons with a rubber bladder in it that we air every so often and waters miles of pipelines and tens of troughs.

Generally the buzzing sound is a motor trying to start and not getting it done.

[vineyridge]

Well is supposed to be 1200 feet deep. It has a 3 horse power pump motor. We put in such a huge tank because I wanted to have extra water available in case of fire.

The well services four houses with single people, and one ag operation that uses huge amounts of water during the growing season in their herbicide and pesticide tanks. We’re talking industrial agriculture.

I’ve replaced many a pressure switch in the past with no ill effects. They tend not to last very long–three or four or five years max.

[clanter]

load panel (circuit breaker panel) made be defective… there have been several recalls of panels sold about ten years ago of panels that had aluminum bus bars …if incorrect breakers were installed the bus bar would fail

[vineyridge]

This circuit breaker box was put in in about 1987. I don’t think any of the circuit breakers have ever needed replacement in that box. I did have to replace one in another box out there.

[Bluey]

We have a rather large separate storage tank that can also be used as gravity flow, in case the well quits or freezes.
The pressure tank services it also.

Yes, the panel could be toast also.
Why not start with replacing the switch first, that would be quick and easy, then see if it works.

I hope you can find what is wrong.

[Tom_King]

I doubt it’s the pressure regulator switch, but don’t have enough information to troubleshoot it from here. Bad breakers don’t usually buzz. Mostly they just trip too easily.

[Tom_King]

I don’t know what a “circle connector” is.

[vineyridge]

A circle connector is a piece of metal in the shape of a circle that has a plastic cover and crimps onto the end of a wire. The official name is “ring terminal.”

If it’s not the breaker or the pressure switch, then it has to be the pump motor. I will replace the pressure switch tomorrow and see what happens. I could have damaged something when I cleaned the contacts (hoping against hope)

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=Tom King;8526764]
I don’t know what a “circle connector” is.[/QUOTE]

aka Crimp connector or Crimp terminals

http://www.digikey.com/en/pdf/m/molex/visual-inspection-crimped-terminals-indusrial?WT.srch=1

[Foxyrab]

Last summer I had a buzzing breaker box and a circuit that was tripping. The breaker for that circuit needed replaced.

[gumtree]

Unless your pump also has a control box, one of my wells does, there are only three possible problems as you know.

A bad breaker will buzz sometimes and trip IME. Sometimes they just trip instantly which IME usually means a short somewhere. But Breakers work off of a heat sensitive spring which can be “taxed” after being subjected to high power demand. ‘Heating’ it up on a regular bases but just below the point of tripping which shortens its life span.

The pump maybe on its last legs, maybe a bad bearing which is causing a ‘drag’ when starting up which would cause a power demand ‘spike’ above what the breaker can handle. Kind of the same when using my small table saw and ripping large thick material and the blade gets ‘pinched’ and the motor struggles and the breaker trips. Especially if connected to a extension cord.

I have had pressure switches go bad. But they did not effect the Breaker. Pretty easy to swap out as I am sure you know. See no reason why you can’t use a properly sized crimp connector. Buy a couple of commercial grade. There are pressure switches to be had that have clamp connectors. Just strip back the wire end to the proper length and stick it in and screws tight.

I would start with the cheap and easy stuff. Buy a new breaker and pressure switch. Install the new breaker first and see what happens. If it trips install the pressure switch. If this doesn’t fix it then it kind of has to be the pump.

You can leave the new stuff in place or take it out reinstall the old and return the breaker and pressure switch for a refund.

I have only worked/installed a few well pumps. Not familiar with the many different types/brands. The ones I use have an internal thermal switch/breaker. To protect the supply line from being overloaded when it fails. The ‘switch’ is not replaceable.

Replacing the pump itself is pretty easy. Well electrical line water proof spice kits can be bought for a few dollars.

Pulling the pump is where the real work and hassle comes into play. Especially with 1200 feet of pipe and wire to pull out. It will require a couple of people to help. One to pull it up and another person or 2 to walk/lay the line out.

Or rent one of these. I have never used one.

http://www.gappower.com/Rent-an-UPZDAZY-Well-Pump-Puller/item/PUMPUL

You also need to MacGyver up a T-handle that screws into the pitless adapter. Made one from black pipe threaded on one end. The size is based on the size of the adapter

https://www.google.com/search?q=pitless+adapter&rlz=1C1AVNE_enUS611US612&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=775&tbm=isch&imgil=2JZsKak43AzAiM%3A%3ByFv1RAT-ytXyNM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.deanbennett.com%252Fpitless-adapters.htm&source=iu&pf=m&fir=2JZsKak43AzAiM%3A%2CyFv1RAT-ytXyNM%2C_&usg=__5lw7VCDBHRWietPwCxNEyO89n6s%3D&ved=0ahUKEwiD2-elzvLKAhWCTCYKHeXYBOAQyjcITQ&ei=wAO-VoP7BYKZmQHlsZOADg#imgrc=2JZsKak43AzAiM%3A

to disconnect the supply line from the stand pipe.

Or as you said call a well guy. Not going to be cheap. We lost a pump and control box to a lighten strike on one of wells. Our Home Owners insurance covered the cost less the deductible.

You may know all of the above. As usual with my posts/comments I included more information for others benefit who may not.

Let us know what fixes it. Good luck

[airhorse]

@gumtree;8527323

Unless your pump also has a control box, one of my wells does, there are only three possible problems as you know.

Ours does, and also has screw in fuses in addition to a breaker in the panel.

Those screw in fuses saved our bacon during a lightning strike.

[Bluey]

Our wells have two and three 3" copper fuses in the box before entering the well house itself and a lightning arrestor after them and yes, those we have replaced several times when lighting hits the line and blows those up.

[vineyridge]

Success! Thank God. It may be only temporary, but I replaced the circuit breaker (240 20 amp) and the pressure switch with one I had on hand. When I compared the old one and the one on hand, they had totally different capacities. The one on hand was the correct one for that pump–which has does have a pump controller box. Pump is 230 volt, 3hp. Spare was rated for that. Replacing it will cost 3 times the cost of the old 115 that is only rated for a 1 1/2 hp pump.

I bought ring terminals and then found that there wasn’t room in the new pressure switch for them. So I got out my dremel and ground them down to fit.

I do hope this fix lasts.

I hope I haven’t damaged the pump motor or the pump controller by using the wrong pressure switch. I got the wrong one from a plumbing supply house. The right one is available on amazon but is special order otherwise.

[gumtree]

Good deal always satisfying when a DIY gets the job done and saves a lot of money.

If you used heavy commercial grade terminals and didn’t take off too much of the contact surface it should be all right. That’s a big pump drawing a lot of power.

[clanter]

if you are going to play with electricity one thing that you should do before touching the item you are going to work on, make sure the breakers are off, mark the breakers intentionally turned off so some good hearted individual doesn’t reset them while you are working on the device.

And for good measure before working on the thing touch it with the back side of your hand… if there was a dead short and current was running through the device your hand would be kicked away rather than if you touched if palm first the muscles contact and lock you to the shorted out device

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=clanter;8528857]
if you are going to play with electricity one thing that you should do before touching the item you are going to work on, make sure the breakers are off, mark the breakers intentionally turned off so some good hearted individual doesn’t reset them while you are working on the device.

And for good measure before working on the thing touch it with the back side of your hand… if there was a dead short and current was running through the device your hand would be kicked away rather than if you touched if palm first the muscles contact and lock you to the shorted out device[/QUOTE]

Good advise. But the chances of “muscles contact and lock you to the shorted out device” this happening with a 120 line is slim to none. I can’t begin to count how many times I have been zapped by a 120 line over the years with no ill effect. Friends of mine that are licensed Master electricians have said the same. People are ‘spooked’ enough working with or being around electrical stuff. A lot of which comes from Hollywood.

My electric fence gives a much bigger ‘zap’ then the average 120 line. I have yet to see anyone including myself that hangs on to either.

People with heart conditions and or pacemakers maybe a different story.

When working with/around 220 and up high amp stuff completely different story. I have a very high respect for it and take a lot of precautions.

As anyone that has done a bit of traveling knows a good part of the ‘free world’ is wired for 220 as the standard. I’ve spend a fair bit of time in the 220 parts of Europe and don’t know of anyone getting hurt/killed nor read about it.

I carry one of these inexpensive line testers in my electrical kit. The wire/line doesn’t need to be exposed. Just hold it near or on a wire and it will buzz/blink if there is any voltage present. It will not tell you how much or if the line is wired correctly. It only tells you that the correct breaker was turned off and or if the line is ‘dead’. Very handy to have. Cheaper ones can be had.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Non-Contact-Voltage-Tester-NCVT-1SEN/100661787