I’m a 5’3ft rider with experience producing horses to FEI. I’m considering a yoing welsh cob as my next purchase. Am I crazy? I know resale will likely not be as good compared to a WB. Is there anything I should be concerned about while shopping for cobs specifically? I know there are a number of cob enthusiasts in the forums.
I’ve never been on a “pure” cob, but a good friend of mine had a young cross in training that I tried my damnedest to convince the owners to sell. It was by North Forks Cardi out of a TB mare (mare was approved for breeding with the ATA I believe). Anyway, the little gelding had a super brain and was fairly capable. Not an extravagant mover, but could certainly get the job done. And he had fabulous hair!
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As the owner of a Welsh CobxTB who made it to PSG, I can say that they can definitely do it. Mine has a great personality and was delightful to take to shows, easy to handle, and just all around a good guy. I will say that he didn’t have the best hind leg, so pirouettes were not a highlight because the sitting required was a challenge. YMMV. That said, he had an extended trot to die for, and was a savant at changes.
The downside is that they can have a serious attitude and when they don’t want to work, they just stop working. Mine has never been dangerous or scary in any way, but when he shuts down, he’s done. And I mean DONE. Keep in mind this is a sample size of one, but I’ve heard of other people with cobs who have a serious 'tude.
And yes, he does have ALL the hair. Wrestling his mane into braids for shows was…interesting. Photos in my blog.
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In looking at cobs vs. warmbloods, I think you’ll find the price differential isn’t as much as it used to be. With the ascendancy of North Forks Cardi and the increasing popularity of ponies and pony-types in dressage, the (list) prices for cobs going under saddle are pretty high. Even some of the unbroke ones are in the 20-30k range. So all of that is to say that if you can put some good training on one, I think the resale is likely to stay reasonable.
I think the cobs are experiencing a popularity spike like the Friesians did about 10-15 yrs ago. I don’t know how sustainable it is, but I do like seeing the little guys out there showing and am a huge fan of pony power.
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I have a single half Welsh Cob (he’s half mixed breed pony), so I’m no expert, but I also know two people with FEI Welsh Cobs, so there is that too. My half Cob has attitude - he needs a confident rider to be his leader, but if he has that, he is a lot of fun. He is spooky, but gets over it quickly if the rider helps him. I haven’t had him long enough to comment on long term talent - he is Training Level at this point, but he has 3 pure gaits and a really nice canter. So for me, the attitude is the biggest issue. And we are working through contact issues, and the other Welsh Cob owners I know dealt with the same thing - apparently it can be hard to find bits that work for them.
The other two are both attitude too - and a bit hot, tense, and spooky. I would agree, the hind leg isn’t always the quickest and the hindquarters aren’t always the strongest for some of the upper level work, but then that is an issue with a lot of Warmbloods too.
On the upside - they are smart (OK, that can also be a problem). Personally, I prefer a smart horse. My guy has a great canter - trot is OK. The others I know also have good canters, although better trots then my guy. None of them (that I know) have big swingy walks, but they are pure and workable.
And cute - OMG… CUTE. There really is something to be said about riding a cutie!
BTW - I know someone who use to breed Welsh/WB crosses (not cobs), and they tended to be really nice horses - less attitude. I am not sure if the attitude is a Cob thing?
ExVet probably has the most experience with the breed!
I can speak as someone who has ridden mostly TBs and now has a Welsh Cob x.
I’ve experienced this, minus the 'tude. I find schooling enough to get some good work in and then calling it a day will get me farther in the long run than trying to fill time to say I rode (schooled/worked) x number of minutes. I’ve had a hard time with lessons in that regard . . . I’ve gotten great work in the warm up and if I were riding at home I would have finished the ride there, but pushing forward more for the sake of filling the whole lesson time has backfired. If she’s done, she’s done. RESPECT, yo!
My pony is only 5 and we’re working at Training level, so I can’t speak to moving up the levels yet.
What my experience has been is a SMART pony (don’t know if that’s the breed or the mare part) who is eager to please and tries hard. The cuteness factor is off the charts. When her canter is forward it is lovely. She’s strong. She’s sensitive. She’s easy to get along with and has been easy to train, BUT you cannot push her to do something she doesn’t want to do. She has a good and long memory. Praise, praise, praise is the best way to get the best from her. She is not spooky, she is forward but not necessarily hot. She’s a lot of fun!
A judge’s comment on a test was “adorable creature” - I think that pretty much sums it up!
I would gladly get another one by her sire.
exvet will likely chime in here, she is a breeder (and bred my pony) and can tell you all the pros and cons of someone who has worked with them for a long time.
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OMG, the cuteness is killing me. I want one!
Rode one through PSG and was schooling GP with her before stepping her down to an AA. Really lovely, endless try and one of my favorites still to this day. She was hard to develop fitness wise (was never fit enough) and at the time fitting tack was hard. I’ve seen others with similar issues and they also tend to have weaker canters.
If you like a hotter pony go for it.
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My FAVORITE topic! I adore welsh cobs but as others already know I do not think they are for everyone. I’ve had welsh cob x tb crosses (love that cross), morgan x welsh cob crosses (adore that cross) and many purebreds both C & Ds. I’ve personally trained and taken two to PSG and earned my silver with one. I’ve gotten quite a few to 3rd & 4th. I wrote an article 8-10 years ago that reviewed the number of welsh cobs registered with USDF and the number competing at third and above. The percentage relative to warmbloods was very impressive. There are many within the breed that definitely have the capability. I often describe them to be like Arabs on steroids. They’re sensitive, smart, and absolutely positively require a leader. If you do not establish yourself as the leader, they will assume that role. The other thing they require is their handler being absolutely fair. I find they need attention to maintaining conditioning more than some breeds; but, that isn’t an issue or problem in my opinion. If you have confidence in your ability, think things through and recognize that they will learn whatever you teach them (good and bad) and own up to that part of the deal, you should be able to go as far as YOUR talent will take you.
There are definitely certain bloodlines that I prefer over others but that is personal preference. You would be wise to make sure that the one of your interest likes to canter and that cantering comes easy and natural to it. I prefer those who are bold over those who are not; but, to be honest one of my best who has earned two additional people their silvers is one who always would look for my pocket to climb into when things got scary.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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I think if you just follow the career of North Forks Cardi, you’ll have your answer. <3
As native ponies, they have a lot of self preservation. They like a leader and will work their heart out if asked with sympathy and respect but you can’t boss them. They can tell you clearly when they have had enough. Often lacking a wither, fitting a saddle can be a pain. The big crest that is a feature of the breed can make it difficult to release the neck at base and poll but that does depend on the individual animal. Another problem is that they move differently from a WB and an inexperienced judge might mark them down.
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I’ve considered a number of them, ended up buying an oversized GRP.
I didn’t decide not to get a Welsh cob, the GRP just came along at the right time in my life. I have also considered breeding my smallish WB mare to one, but will probably end up going with a GRP. At the end of the day, the GRPs are a bit more built for the job and they are very rideable. At least mine sure is.
That said, I have seen a few of the Cardi crosses and would love to have one. I hear they are incredibly rideable. I don’t know that I would get a full WC because they can be a bit heavy for me personally (I’m 5’2" and very petite) and frankly, I am not a dominate type rider. I tend to be the opposite actually. So it really depends on your personality and goals.
If you are looking for a resale project, you will likely end up selling a GRP for more, but the buy in will also be quite a bit higher.
Speaking as someone who doesn’t own a cob but does own and ride a pony I find this to be key. As long as I respect her and give her the benefit of the doubt and reward where a reward is due she is easy peasy and works her heart out for me. If I cross that line she let’s me know it and suddenly there is no work ethic there. Both me and my instructor have learned to end when the work is good and just push a small amount each time rather than drilling or pushing for a certain length of ride.
With that sort of work she’s been fantastic, easy, happy to please, and so so so quick to learn and pick up the things we want her to. I also love the bold pony attitude so much.
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Even if pocket pony’s pony wasn’t ‘a pony’ she’d still have the disposition/demeanor that PP describes. She is definitely her dam’s (morgan x welsh cob) daughter. That being said, none of my welsh cobs or the crosses did well with drilling. The just simply do not need it and I believe they see it as an incredible waste of energy. They are kings of self-preservation They also are incredibly willing to please so if you keep trying the same thing over and over and over, they’re convinced they’re doing something ‘wrong’ and try to ‘fix’ it. Trying to approach a concept/task from different angles when one specific one doesn’t work is also far better and then once they ‘get it’ you repeat it once each direction and move on to something else or quit on the good note.
I’m also going to point out that while Cardi has definitely earned his due both on his own merit and through his offspring, Kentchurch Chime and his get as well as many of the Gallod pre-fix and Castleberry pre-fix prove the breed is more than capable. There are others and I don’t mean to leave those breeding programs out but the ones I mention have definitely proven consistency.
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If you scratch the pedigree of the GRP you will find Welsh on Welsh on Welsh with a few German name changes then the addition of small WB in the recent past.
Also look at New Forest ponies, if available. They are less distinctive than Welsh cobs but can do good dressage and jumping and are more ‘riding horse’ in type.
