Welsh Stallion for small Quarter Horse mare?

[flightcrash]

I have a family member who’s looking to breed her AQHA mare either this year or next to a nice welsh stallion to produce a hunter pony. The mare is 14.2 MAYBE 14.3 hands tops, dainty, is a beautiful flat-kneed mover, has a great brain, and has a great jump (and LOVES it). The only thing her owner really wants to improve on her is maybe shorten her back a just a little. The mare does toe out slightly in front, but you really have to look to see it.

Owner would like to produce a nice hunter pony, preferably a medium, but would also be open to a large. Her dam was a large mare, but her sire was fairly small (14.2h), so I’m not sure how that would affect the height of her offspring. This would be her first and probably only foal. Owner would also like a little bling, but this isn’t a pre-requisite in any way. She doesn’t want to take away from her neck and shoulder especially, and a kid-friendly temperament is a must! She asked me for some help, and I’ve been looking at mostly section A’s, but I know when to admit that I’m pretty lost. Can anyone give me some suggestions or point me in a good direction?

Pedigree is here:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/goodwins+dreamscape

Pictures of her, sorry no conformation shots!
Jump 1
Trotting
Jump 2

[HorseKrazy]

Check out the leg-up auction. It’s for a good cause and has several pony stud services donated, but act quick! I’ll see if I can find the link for you. I have a AQHA as well and I was asking myself this vey question! I decided against the breeding because I am unsure how all my mare is (I have had her all her life and can’t remember how all she is!) but I feel she is too tall and we would end up with a small horse that wouldn’t be marketable if we ended up selling it down the road.

[HorseKrazy]

http://www.leg-up.org/marin-county-fund-raisingauctiondonation-page.html
Here’s the link!

[flightcrash]

Thanks! I’ve definitely been looking at those boys and I sent the links to her owner a few days ago. She really likes all the pony studs on there, but wanted to make sure she looked at all her options and choose the best match instead of making an impulsive decision. She, and I, weren’t really sure if the mare needed a section A stallion or if she could go with a section B and still get a pony foal, as opposed to a “hony”. Jump is also really important, and I’ve had a tough time finding jumping photos of some of the stallions.

[adelmo95]

Where is the mare located? I rode and showed a small welsh section B stallion this year who I believe would produce lovely pony hunter prospects. He is located in Alberta, has lots of suspension in his trot, and a huge canter stride for such a small pony. Because I am too big for him I have focused on flat work rather than jumping him and after only a few months under saddle he showed at a rated dressage show at training level and was competitive against the horses receiving all scores above 60%. You can scroll through this album to see pictures of him: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151175241179406.460140.501539405&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=10151175241889406&set=a.10151175241179406.460140.501539405&type=3&theater (did I mention he is a palomino with lots of chrome). He is sired by Rosedale Royal Flare who has produced many successful pony hunters and jumpers. Here is a daughter of Rosedale Royal Flare who shows the typical jumping form he produces: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4115744405.1990.501539405&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=495026874405&set=a.432591124405.203425.501539405&type=3&theater

[adelmo95]

I forgot to mention that overall I would try to go with a section B. The B’s are bred to be riding ponies and are generally a little more refined and have less knee action.

[Dressage_Diva333]

If the mare doesn’t have height in the pedigree you could probably get away with a small B, who doesn’t have hidden size. I am not familiar with QH bloodlines, so I don’t feel I can fairly evaluate the mare’s pedigree and tell you for sure or not. I would say stay with something 13 hands or under to be safe

[flightcrash]

adelmo - He’s gorgeous! The mare is located in Illinois, her owner would prefer to do AI with fresh semen. I’ll definitely add him to the list if breeding would be feasible.

Dressage-Diva - Her dam was 16h and a beefy mare, very much looked like an Impressive lined mare (HYPP N/N though, and didn’t look like a cow). This mare looks a lot more like her sire, who was about her size and build. Horses on the sire’s side at least three generations back were not taller than 15.3h.

It’s a relief to be able to look at the section B’s as well, while I’ve found some wonderful wonderful section A’s, there aren’t many that are proven or have many offspring going over fences.

[adelmo95]

I would have to talk to his owner to confirm but I believe that would be possible

[TwinCity]

I hope the Welsh breeders will chime in here…I know you have to be very careful with some B bloodlines as height can pop up. I bred my 15.3HH Hanoverian mare to a B (Alvesta Picasso) but had healthy twins that matured to 13.2 and 13.3HH. This year she is pregnant again with the same cross and I suspect the foal may mature bigger…but time and genetics will tell. In my case, a hony will be no issue for my plans.

Honestly, if it were me and it was quite important to stay under 14.2, I would only look at Section A’s…but that’s just a very humble opinion!

[TwinCity]

Hmmm…

I hope the Welsh breeders will chime in here…I know you have to be very careful with some B bloodlines as height can pop up. I bred my 15.3HH Hanoverian mare to a B (Alvesta Picasso) but had healthy twins that matured to 13.2 and 13.3HH. This year she is pregnant again (same sire) and I suspect the foal may mature bigger…but time and genetics will tell. In my case, a hony will be no issue for my plans.

Honestly, if it were me and it was quite important to stay under 14.2, I would only look at Section A’s…but that’s just a very humble opinion!

[ChocoMare]

Section A guy: Cherubs Cassanova

[VirginiaBred]

Has she had a foal previously?
You can definitely go with a Section B and a bigger one at that.

I’d not use a Section A.

Many Bs to select from!!!

Go to www.vpba.com and look at those guys.
Also, look at the stallions at Dianne Randolph’s Hidden Springs Farm, in Blacksburg, South Carolina - http://www.hiddenspringsfarminc.com
Take a look at Richard Taylor’s Venture Stable - www.venturestable.com

[Daventry]

I have to agree with Virginiabred, if this were my mare, I would go with a Section B. A purebred Section B who doesn’t have a lot of height in their background should be fine when crossing with a Quarter Horse mare. The Section B is going to have a much better chance of improving the length of stride normally seen on a Quarter Horse.

Just as a side note, with the mare in question being a palomino, I personally would NOT breed to a single dilute stallion (i.e. palomino) as there is a 25% chance you would end up with a cremello. People either love or hate the double dilutes, but I have found they are definitely frowned in the hunter ring. As well, because their color is so noticeable, they usually have to try twice as hard in the ring because it is much easier to see their mistakes/flaws.

We have crossed our Section B stallion Alvesta Picasso with several Quarter Horse mares and have really liked the crosses. Alvesta Picasso’s son, Daventry’s Power Play, is available in the Leg-Up Auction, but I would NOT choose him for this particular mare, as he is a buckskin, so again, there would be a 25% chance of getting a double dilute.

[flightcrash]

She hasn’t had a foal, but almost every horse on her dam’s side is, or is over, 16h (which is why I’m nervous about breeding to something too big!).

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn’t you breed to a section A? We’ve really fallen in love with Cherubs Casanova, he looks like he has the bone, movement, jump, and hind end that we’ve been looking for. I’ve looked at SO many stallions at this point, and he’s the one that really jumped out at me.

[Daventry]

To cross with a Quarter Horse mare, I would want to cross with a stallion who has more shoulder movement, length of stride, freedom of movement and a nice big canter step if your end goal is to produce a hunter pony. If I was going to choose a Section A, I also wouldn’t want to pick one quite that small…I would stick with something in the 12.2 HH range. But again, for me, I would not choose a Section A to cross with a Quarter Horse mare.

There are lots of Section B stallions who are crossed with 15.3-16 HH mares all the time and produce lovely top of the line large ponies. Again, the key is to know your bloodlines and choose a Section B stallion that isn’t going to throw a lot of height into the mix.

[VirginiaBred]

I agree with Daventry (re: not breeding a Section A to a QH mare) but that aside, you have an unproven QH mare. If you’re breeding for a Hunter Pony prospect, at least breed her to a PROVEN PERFORMANCE sire.

Two unknowns do not equal a successful sale.