Werther & Weltmeyer Frozen ?

[Amberkez]

I used the search button and found tons about Weltmeyer, not so much about Werther (who has always been a fav of mine). So I’m hoping folks with experience can chime in here about both stallions.

#1. Quality/Success of Frozen ?

#2. What will they improve?

#3. What will they not improve?

#4. What type of mare do they work best with?
(ie good walk/short back/lots of blood/etc etc)

#5. Personality?

And yes I know this is a very general question, it’s more of a future reference kind of deal.

But I would also like opinions on a possible cross with this mare.
Kalypso/Diamont/Hoedowns Day xx , 17hh, solid build, strong gaits (though old fashioned, which I’m fine with), fairly mellow - needs to shorten back, and needs a bit more in the hindquarters ie Badonkadonk

[horsey1cr]

I’ve owned both Werther’s and Weltmeyers. Quality of semen was very good for both but this was 20 years ago! The Werther’s (3 of them) ended up very old style, cart horse like, even though the mare was half thoroughbred. They were also tough in the mouth but very amateur friendly. The Weltmeyers were much higher quality for today’s standards. Very good gaits but much hotter and not as amateur friendly. That said, why not breed to something more modern?

[Amberkez]

[QUOTE=horsey1cr;7965256]
I’ve owned both Werther’s and Weltmeyers. Quality of semen was very good for both but this was 20 years ago! The Werther’s (3 of them) ended up very old style, cart horse like, even though the mare was half thoroughbred. They were also tough in the mouth but very amateur friendly. The Weltmeyers were much higher quality for today’s standards. Very good gaits but much hotter and not as amateur friendly. That said, why not breed to something more modern?[/QUOTE]

It probably wont happen anyhow, just daydreaming, its a bit too risky to breed something to keep when it wont be as marketable

For me I have absolutely loved what the Werther/Weltmeyer mares themselves have produced, and while I know there are more modern options I would love to have a Werther and Weltmeyer mare to keep for future use as riding/broodmares. I would only use one of these stallions with the intent to keep.

Conformation wise, it sounds as if the Werthers were/are quite solid? Do they tend to be a shorter body type?

What about the hindends for both? Articulation of the hind legs? The sit? Sorry to be a pest…its just as you said they are both a bit in the past and I’ve not spoken to many folks who can give me specific details.

I’ve always been curious, some girls grew up playing with barbies and I was always looking at the old frozen semen catalogs lol and I think thats why they’ve always stuck in my brain.

[horsey1cr]

The Werthers’ were solid yes but all were thick in the throat latch and didn’t want to be steady on the bit. They all wanted to lean and pull. They were not short or long in the body. Just average. They all had 3 good gaits and strong hind-ends but canters took a long time to collect. They totally lacked enough sensitivity for dressage. I sold one as a jumper prospect and one of them winged like a helicopter. I saw a video of Werther once and he looked amazing - nothing like my foals turned out and my mare was really nice (at that time). I would never consider Werther again but who knows? It could have been the dam’s DNA that put these things on even though she happened to be good herself.
The Weltmeyers all had strong hind ends. I took one to I-1 but ultimately he was unable to collect and sit enough to do piaffe. There are many out there who can sit just fine so it depends on the mare too. I would have no trouble breeding to a Weltmeyer mare.

[Amberkez]

[QUOTE=horsey1cr;7965532]
The Werthers’ were solid yes but all were thick in the throat latch and didn’t want to be steady on the bit. They all wanted to lean and pull. They were not short or long in the body. Just average. They all had 3 good gaits and strong hind-ends but canters took a long time to collect. They totally lacked enough sensitivity for dressage. I sold one as a jumper prospect and one of them winged like a helicopter. I saw a video of Werther once and he looked amazing - nothing like my foals turned out and my mare was really nice (at that time). I would never consider Werther again but who knows? It could have been the dam’s DNA that put these things on even though she happened to be good herself.
The Weltmeyers all had strong hind ends. I took one to I-1 but ultimately he was unable to collect and sit enough to do piaffe. There are many out there who can sit just fine so it depends on the mare too. I would have no trouble breeding to a Weltmeyer mare.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the info, how was your mare bred at the time?

[horsey1cr]

They were bred frozen semen from ‘Classic Sires’.

[ahf]

I know this does not answer the specific questions you asked… but here are my thoughts anyway.

The Kalypso’s I’ve seen were fairly modern horses. Which makes sense, his sire was the TB Kronenkranich xx. When you consider your mare, and that the 2nd dam is also TB, ON PAPER she has a lot of blood. But the phenotype she ended up with (as you are describing it) is pure, classic Diamont.

Because she is expressing only the old part of her pedigree, breeding her to an older style stallion (like Weltmeyer, like Werther) is not something I personally would do. At least until I found out if she produced lighter than herself when bred to a fairly modern stallion.

[Amberkez]

[QUOTE=ahf;7965720]
I know this does not answer the specific questions you asked… but here are my thoughts anyway.

The Kalypso’s I’ve seen were fairly modern horses. Which makes sense, his sire was the TB Kronenkranich xx. When you consider your mare, and that the 2nd dam is also TB, ON PAPER she has a lot of blood. But the phenotype she ended up with (as you are describing it) is pure, classic Diamont.

Because she is expressing only the old part of her pedigree, breeding her to an older style stallion (like Weltmeyer, like Werther) is not something I personally would do. At least until I found out if she produced lighter than herself when bred to a fairly modern stallion.[/QUOTE]

Edgar bred her twice to Pablito and once to Grandom, only front photos I think they are more modern, lighter, more refined than she is. I’ll try to attach a photo of the Grandom colt but I’m not sure it will from my phone :). I’ve seen most of the offspring of her full sisters and is really think they are falling back to the blood in the pedigree, of course Pablito and Pablo make pretty anyhow .