Western Dressage - 1 handed?

[PopPopcorn]

Very genuine question, not here for a raging battle.

I took a look at a majority of the pics taken at the WDAA World Show in Oklahoma. Why are the majority (if not all) of the horses that are ridden in curb bits (not snaffles) being ridden with 2 hands?

I was wondering why no one was riding with 1 hand (splits or romel reins)? Do you get dinged for riding 1 handed? Do people think that self carriage isn’t possible with 1 hand?

I’m a romel rein lover myself and I’m just dipping my toe into the WD world but I wanted to get some feedback on the bit/rein situation.

I saw some decent shanks on a few bits (who knows about the mouth pieces) but 2 hands. Was excited to see tons of snaffles and a few bitless bridles too!

[NoSuchPerson]

This is a topic that has caused some discussion here on the forum.

If I had time and the inclination this morning, I could write a lot more on this topic, but lucky for you, I don’t. The short summary of my opinion: Two hands with a western curb bit is wrong. Don’t do it. Some people do. Like my Mom used to say, just because your friends are jumping off a bridge doesn’t mean you should do it, too. Snaffle = two hands. Curb = one hand.

I think some people don’t know any better. I think some people look at the use of a double bridle in dressage and say, “Direct reining with a curb. OK, then.”

If you search the western forum, you will find some previous discussions of western dressage. Ditto the dressage forum. There is some ugliness, but also good information and interesting discussion.

[Montanas_Girl]

@NoSuchPerson

The short summary of my opinion: Two hands with a western curb bit is wrong. Don’t do it.

Ditto.

My experience with western dressage is that most - not all, but by far the majority - of the people who have joined the sport were not western riders previously. Rather, they were/are dressage riders with horses that don’t move extravagantly enough to be competitive in modern “regular” dressage. Which explains why so much of the tack and riding style is not really western-based at all.

[CHT]

It is easier to be precise in your control two handed. Lateral work, such as shoulder in, and precise shapes are just harder one handed.

Having both hands on the reins doesn’t have to be that big a deal. You just use your hands together much like the reins were in one hand, but you have just that slight bit more precision available.

That said, curbs aren’t as much of an advantage, particularly at the lower levels as it can be very hard to encourage a “free walk” stretch in a curb.

I did show my mare first and second one handed just to try it. It didn’t gain me points and definitely was harder, so really, why bother. I feel western dressage should eventually require one handed riding at a certain level, but it is still a relatively young sport with not that many riders doing the higher levels, so I think they want to make sure as many people as possible feel the higher levels are achievable.

[PopPopcorn]

So would 2 hands with a snaffle potentially score higher than 1 hand with a curb? I have seen the comments about people being told to take more direct contact with the horse in a curb, but I feel like that’s just counter intuitive with how a curb works?

I saw people on FB calling certain snaffles “too English looking for WD”. Taking that with a grain of salt but would a Sprenger D really score lower than a loose ring snaffle with a “western look”? Or is this all just hearsay and someone can ride in any legal snaffle?

Just trying to unwind a few of these questions before I commit to a couple of shows.

[Montanas_Girl]

@PopPopcorn

So would 2 hands with a snaffle potentially score higher than 1 hand with a curb? I have seen the comments about people being told to take more direct contact with the horse in a curb, but I feel like that’s just counter intuitive with how a curb works?

Yes. And yes.

Thus my personal pet peeve that “western dressage” is not at all western. Contact in the dressage sense held on a western curb bit is not something that should ever be encouraged, but here we are.

[NoSuchPerson]

@Montanas_Girl

Thus my personal pet peeve that “western dressage” is not at all western.

Amen. I’ve stepped up on this soapbox here before, so I will restrain myself. But to me, western dressage has been a disappointment for exactly that reason: it’s not really western.

[CHT]

That’s complicated. In WD you don’t want the same tension as in English dressage, and as the levels progress the judge is looking for more “self carriage” which can be harder to achieve in a snaffle, but the movements can be easier two handed…that’s why you see two handed in a curb.

So in the lower levels, when you are looking for longer outlines and free walks? Two handed in a snaffle has an advantage, but as you move up the levels, it would be trickier to get the degree of self carriage in a snaffle. A well trained horse one handed in a curb may have the advantage there…but two handed in a curb has the best of both worlds and would likely score the highest. There is really no motivation to ride one handed.

[SillyHorse]

@PopPopcorn

Taking that with a grain of salt but would a Sprenger D really score lower than a loose ring snaffle with a “western look”? Or is this all just hearsay and someone can ride in any legal snaffle?

I’m interested in the answer, too. In classical dressage, any legal bit is allowed. Is it the same for western dressage?

[CHT]

A legal bit is a legal bit.

Where exactly do you think they would lower the score? In Working Equitation you could be scored down if you are in western tack with an english looking bit because there is a score for appointments, but there isn’t in western and many of the judges for western dressage are also english dressage judges.

[PopPopcorn]

Classical dressage allows a baucher. WD doesn’t.

WD allows a Dr Bristol mouth. CD doesn’t.

I just wanted some clarification. Legal isn’t legal across the disciplines.

I saw that “barrel” mouthpieces are legal but I can’t find info on a “bean/lozenge” mouth. Just wanted some clarification if anyone got comments on riding in a HS KK Ultra or NS TT or so.

[CHT]

Well, yes, Western Dressage and English dressage have different rules, but if a bit is legal but “looks english” it will not be penalized.

As an aside though, a Dr. Bristol is not allowed in western dressage. If a flat link is used, it must lay flat against the tongue.

[Knights_Mom]

Just last week I was speaking with Lynn Palm during her Western Dressage seminar at Devon. I asked this exact question and she said that yes you can ride 2 handed on a curb but it’s up to the rider to know how to do so.

I know I know how to do so. Clearly dressage riders ride the curb 2 handed all the time. And don’t tell me how they ride off the snaffle part of the double. They should but they don’t.

[endlessclimb]

AGAIN.

The curb on a double has shorter shanks and a shorter purchase than the ones being used in western dressage. It is not an apples to apples comparison.

And a lot of these riders are riding training level, first level, maaaybe second level… where the double isn’t even legal.

[PopPopcorn]

And that is where I’m getting confused. Intro level riders riding 2 handed with a 7” shank.

But the lack of clarity is a WDAA issue, maybe the regulations will adjust overtime as the classes become more popular.

[endlessclimb]

Sure makes it easy to get that headset (using western terms) when you’ve got 7" of leverage to do it with.

[PopPopcorn]

This is the exact same bit. I know a DB can have an angle but Korsteel sells this as a DB and it’s the same exact bit as listed as legal.

[Montanas_Girl]

@endlessclimb

AGAIN.

The curb on a double has shorter shanks and a shorter purchase than the ones being used in western dressage. It is not an apples to apples comparison.

Yes.

And, also, it’s not that western riders “don’t know how” to ride two-handed in a curb. I have no problem taking a horse in a curb two-handed briefly while schooling to correct a wandering shoulder, or other issue that demands a brief correction. The use of two hands in and of itself is not our/my objection at all. It’s that a western curb should not be ridden on contact to the degree that dressage tests (judges!) demand. I don’t know how much more clearly I can state that.

[NoSuchPerson]

@PopPopcorn

But the lack of clarity is a WDAA issue

I don’t think there is any lack of clarity. I mean, the rules are pretty clear, aren’t they? I may not approve of all the rules, but I don’t perceive any lack of clarity.

I think the two hands on the curb thing discussion went like this:

Western riders are used to riding in curb bits and they won’t want to change bits and they’re gonna want to steer two handed to do these dressage tests, therefore, if we want them to come to our new sport, we’re going to have to let them ride two handed in their western curbs.

Yeah, but that’s wrong.

Do you want to get this western dressage thing off the ground?

Well, yes, but…

Then shut up and vote “yes” on the two hands thing.

[Knights_Mom]

I’m amazed this is even a topic. I have zero issue understanding how this can be done. And WD horses don’t do headsets. And their judges should know the difference.

Many dressage horses are ridden with too much contact so perhaps that’s why folks don’t understand the nuance of how to do it.

If you think WD horses plots around in a head set, you’re not watching WD.