Western Dressage - spin off

[fire_911medic]

Here is an interesting question to ponder. I am a traditional dressage breeder, however my chosen breed is the appendix horse. I love them and think they are perfectly capable of being competitive. An incredibly versatile horse.

This is a question I pose - do you think there is (or will be) a market for breeding a western dressage horse or do you forsee it as being a discipline mainly ruled by horses who didn’t quite make it in other areas ? I ask this because I am curious in general. What is the frame and type that the western dressage market is looking for ? Is it a horse which carries itself in a manner similar to your classical dressage horse ? Or a horse that maintains a more natural head carriage as say Rugged Lark did ? Or more of a peanut pusher carriage ? Are they looking for a horse that rides back to front and is round loose rein or contact ?

The discipline fascinates me as my husband is interested in it (he is extremely uncomfortable in an english saddle, but loves western) and I am doing a poll to see if there is a current or expected market for this style of horse, especially if something that carries itself and rides similar to a classical dressage horse.

Educate me please !

[Bluey]

I would think that, this early in the new discipline, it would be hard to say where this is going, what kind of horse if any specific type is sought after for western dressage, or if there will be much of a market for that.

Breeding for cutting, reining, something that requires a certain specific talent is relatively easy and those that don’t cut it for those make great low level horses for all around and top level team penners/sorters, mounted shooting, rodeo/roping, general ranch horses and ranch versatility competitors.

There is already outlets for those and no one is breeding for those disciplines, because the others are providing enough horses.

My guess would be the same will happen for many years for western dressage, that will use horses others breed for different disciplines.

Now, any one breeder may want to try to breed for western dressage and if good salesmen, they can find enough of a market to sell whatever they have.

Look at how Gipsy Vanners sell just on their name, don’t even have a discipline or special talent, other than their fuzzy looks.

[mvp]

I speak from no position of authority, just personal taste.

Yes, please create an Appendix Western Dressage Breeding Empire! And sell me the first one you create with an uphill canter, lick-you-like-a-dog mind and suspension. I’m short so it can be short.

I rode some very nice Appendix QHs as a kid and I think they are the American answer to the warmblood….before the warmblood came over here.

The great mind is what will make these horses salable in the WD discipline. IMO, the folks choosing WD now (and for the future in general) will be especially turned off by a bad mind. Unlike other specialized disciplines, they won’t take “bad mind plus spectacular mover/athlete.” That’s because the riders WD attracts and because the nod to working ranch horses and rather purist-sounding western horsemanship don’t leave room for a pretty, high-maintenance horse.

IMO, sooner or later, the pretty-moving horse will rise to the top in WD…. just as it has in regular dressage and in other more plainly subjective disciplines. I’m not sure you need to breed a big (read: lots of power and suspension) kind of mover. After all, folks need to be able to sit on these horses and the traditions/riders in this discipline don’t come from DressageWorld’s respect of the big, huge trot with riders knowing that they should learn to sit that, even if it’s hard. IMO, WesternWorld expects a smaller trot, so good-moving WD horses can have a flatter trot.

But! You’d be doing a real service if you bred a horse with a good canter. IMO, stock breed types have settled…. in a deep hole with respect to the canter. Too many horses are not only flat-moving but utterly without suspension. “Uphill” isn’t part of the equation at all. I think genuine collection is probably hard for them; before anything upper level, I think a flat, just about 4-beat canter isn’t pretty to sit on or to watch.

Also, I noted that the horse Buck Brannaman was riding this summer looked like an old-style WB a bit: He was tall, rectangular and has a neck set on pretty high. I think they guy was choosing non-stock breed biomechanics.

In short, then: Yes Please to your breeding program.

[fire_911medic]

MVP - clean out your PM box. Tried to send you a PM and couldn’t cause you don’t delete things !

[mvp]

[QUOTE=fire_911medic;7271938]
MVP - clean out your PM box. Tried to send you a PM and couldn’t cause you don’t delete things ![/QUOTE]

I’m a slacker. Also, I did that so that you wouldn’t PM me with a horse for sale. It would be hard for me to resist, so I’m clinging to anything that prevents that.

lol.

I will get on the ol’ in-box clean out.

[Dee-Vee]

I love Appendix horses as ammy dressage horses. I have seen them kick WB butt in the dressage ring. However, I believe that only the few select individuals would make it to the higher levels. Therefore, I think the market that you would find for Appendix dressage horses would be in the amateur ring, as long as you pay careful attention to produce the characteristics desired in a dressage horse.

As to Western dressage…I am not convinced that it is a discipline, but more of marketing ploy. I know…there are associations, judges, shows, etc…but I have not bought into all of that. That is my opinion.

Next year, I intend to have my Appendix mare inspected for the Canadian Sport Horse registry. Perhaps doing something similar with you horses may make them more marketable as dressage horses.

All the best.

[fire_911medic]

[QUOTE=mvp;7271984]
I’m a slacker. Also, I did that so that you wouldn’t PM me with a horse for sale. It would be hard for me to resist, so I’m clinging to anything that prevents that.

lol.

I will get on the ol’ in-box clean out.[/QUOTE]

Nope wouldn’t do that to you. Isn’t fair. If you were looking I figured you would ask. Was something totally different.

As far as appendix dressage horse I do have a nice amateur market and most stay competitive through third level. You are right higher than that you need to have a nice horse. Not saying one couldn’t do it but you are definitely right with producing for the ammy market with an appendix is a strong thing is you produce nice solid horses.

I am just curious what people think the trend will be and if they think there would.be a market for that breeding program and what frame would be desirable. Always looking to learn especially since my husband is interested. Heck if I can make him interested in “prancing in pretty circles” then I will ! As far as a future I do think there will be a place for it as there is always a place for a well trained athletic horse. Remember it took reining quite a while to really be recognized so I would say give it a chance to grow. It may surprise you. Not saying I’m going to run out and start breeding for it but from a breeders perspective for an already strong program with a good market I do wonder if there would be an additional market for these horses.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=fire_911medic;7272335]
Remember it took reining quite a while to really be recognized so I would say give it a chance to grow. It may surprise you. Not saying I’m going to run out and start breeding for it but from a breeders perspective for an already strong program with a good market I do wonder if there would be an additional market for these horses.[/QUOTE]

A practical and philosophical question is:

What would you change about the typical modern Appendix horse to make him Dressage specific, or even Western Dressage specific?

When I was a tyke and knew a few nice ones that made me like the breed, they weren’t yet the tall, narrow, slow-legged (and tall again) horses bred for the HUS ring. I’m not sure that extreme will be easy or ideal for most ammies buying dedicated some-type-of-dressage mounts.

So what shape horse do you think is needed instead? And do you have a plan for getting there?

[SouthernYankee]

I can see it as a growing sport, and look forward to participating in it in the future. I’ve got a reining gelding that humors me occasionally and puts in a pretty cute dressage test, I can only imagine how much better he would be in western tack. I can see reiniers taking an interest in participating in this, they aren’t built per se to do dressage but the training teaches them to use their behinds and move like a dressage horse. At least my pony size and just as wide gelding moves and rides like a 16 hand horse.

And I have a weanling appendix/wb filly that I plan on eventing but also plan on trail riding and working cows and would participate in western dressage with her. But she’s a Rugged Lark granddaughter so fingers crossed she picks it up naturally.