I talked to an AQHA judge this weekend who judges a lot of ranch events. He was telling me that either in 2020 or 2021, the judges conference was going to discuss allowing participants to use a Snaffle and two hands with horses of any age in the western events (pleasure, trail, etc.). I’m super excited to see if and how this goes in the quarter horse world. Thoughts?
Not being able to show in a Snaffle bit two handed is not a limiting factor to me…especially when AQHA allows you to do so until the age of 5.
it’s not overtly difficult to teach a horse to neck rein and with the literally thousands of different shanked bits with varying shanks and mouth pieces. I find it very hard that one couldn’t find a mouth piece/shank combo that adequately suited their horse.
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Going to be frank here, nothing personal towards OP.
Doesn’t mean it’s on the table for sweeping changes in future rule books and judge might have been trying to placate you if you asked why two hands aren’t allowed on mature horses.
Acceptance of bit and rein aids is part of the judging criteria in any discipline and training the horse for that a staple in any trainers program. There is a huge variety of broken mouth curbs ( one handed, shanked “snaffles”) out there to help with the transition from snaffle to curb or find one that works on any particular horse. If using split reins, you can have a finger between them and learn to manipulate each rein and create almost the same action with a mild, broken mouth curb as using two hands.
But, how does one compete in Working Ranch Horse classes that require a free hand? One hand on the reins and the bits that allow control with one hand came about out of necessity. Whether swinging a sword, shooting, working cattle with pic or rope, opening and closing a gate, carrying anything from a weak calf to supplies or tools or holding the horn on a quality Cutter that can really get down in front of a cow or bush whacking in rough terrain. Those are staples of Ranch work you need a free hand for.
Even in the regular show classes like Western Riding, you open and close a gate and in Trail might also retrieve the mail and carry it while mounted and might carry or drag a sack of something something in Trail. You need a free hand to perform the task while managing the horse to judging standards.
Getting old and cranky but if a horse refuses to accept mastering a skill traditionally required for a discipline and that’s part of the long standing, traditional judging criteria? Maybe it’s a mistake to aim that horse for that discipline and expect rules to change to accommodate the horses lack of acceptance.
Didn’t realize they get to age 5 now with two hands, used to be much earlier. Even in the Vaquero tradition starting colts in a snaffle then going to a Bosal, then gradually introducing the curb had the horse “ straight up” in the bridle by the end of their 5th year and at about a year per step, that’s about the longest, slowest path out there.
Bottom line, there are many way to enjoy your horse. If you want to stay two handed, pick something that does not require sweeping rule changes by the vast majority of other exhibitors to allow you to compete. Say the same about Hunters who can’t change leads or Jumpers who aren’t careful, if they can’t do it, find another job for them.
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I guess you can add me to the “old and cranky” list, because I agree with everything findeight said.
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Me too and for a very specific reason.
When you train a horse past the basics, once that horse is really getting handy, adding a curb and one hand gives you a finished horse with power steering you really don’t get with a snaffle.
That is one reason when you ride bridleless, horse performance tends to deteriorate.
That little bit of support you had with that one handed curb helped the horse keep that edge.
Without that kind of suitable bit for one handed riding, performance tends to become sloppy.
Finished horses depend on those curb bits as they are used one handed, while snaffles are a more noisy, inconsistent bit, when it comes to the finer points of communication, even in the most educated hands.
Once you have experience with all of that, it is clear what difference a one handed curb on a finished horse brings to communicating with the horse.
Coming from an English riding discipline, I too thought I could ride any horse with a snaffle and could prove it.
Then I had to learn that difference once I started listening to those that went there, the humans trying to explain it and the horses showing me by how they responded.
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Hope all are aware that we old and cranky types are not speaking down at anybody from a position of superiority but from many years and many horses worth of experience, not all successful. Think most of us have participated in more then one discipline and/or breed and learned most lessons the hard and more expensive way.
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There are some smaller ranch horse associations that have allowed any bit for any age horse for quite some time. Also see it in some ranch rodeos that offer a ranch horse event (dry work, box, fence, rope).
I don’t see it as and advantage or disadvantage as I have showed in the bridle against aged horses in the snaffle and I have showed a couple aged horses in the snaffle against those in the bridle.
I don’t see the rule becoming widespread soon in a big association like AQHA. All I can say it was handy for getting a horse used to going to town that may have been started later and needed a little help two-handed on occasion.
My end goal is to have the horse in a bridle but to get them to that point I do a lot of stuff in the snaffle or hackamore like opening/closing gates and roping off of them. So I am not understanding the problem with showing them in a snaffle in the ranch classes.
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There is no problem at all in doing all a horse is trained to do using a snaffle.
Of course we train with hackamores and snaffles, not with curb bits and one handed, so everything we do is done with them first, helping them all along, is how you train.
What we are talking about here is, once superbly trained, there is that time where, if you use a curb and one hand in the reins, you may achieve a whole new level of communication.
Not many humans or horses get there, or want to, or appreciate that for their general riding.
When showing, it does present that to the judges, that you can go there, that your horse is that finely trained, why it is used there.
When you show Reiners before the big Futurity, the smaller ones permit two hands.
A horse ridden with two hands has to really, really do extremely well to place above one already doing very well one handed, just shows that bit more if that horse’s talent, is what judges there are looking for.
Don’t know when you show against horses in other classes if judges go there, or if that extra degree of difficulty and finesse gets you points.
If so, even if permitted, most exhibitors wanting to do well probably will stay one handed anyway, unless using the class to school and needing to have two hands for that.
It will be interested to see where this goes, but generally, if many riders want a chance to ride with other than is required now, the associations making the rules will change them, to keep their customers happy and figure a way to sort how to judge with the changes.
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Not disagreeing with anyone here, this discussion is exactly what I wanted.
I totally agree - showing one-handed adds a degree of difficulty and also makes more sense for classes like trail where you need your other hand for other tasks.
However, like Aces N Eights said, it would be nice for the horses (which I deal a lot with) that are western broke at an older age but aren’t ready to ride one handed. For example, there’s a mare I ride for a client that is 6 and was only started under saddle less than a year ago. She rides well in the snaffle but is not ready for a curb yet, so she can’t show in any local western event except western dressage - which isn’t as easy to find or as challenging as showing against traffic at an open show.
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This is not the first time this has come up, typically it does not get very far as most of the actively showing membership doesn’t seriously support it. Don’t know if it’s ever reached a full scale rule change proposal.
Like I said, I don’t think it will come about in the bigger associations like AQHA and definitely not NRCHA and I should of stated I don’t think it should. I have no issue with it in the local clubs where membership and the show entries are on the decline if gets people who normally don’t show to the clubs and shows. Or it is an option for those horses started later in life to go to town.
Some see the any bridle any age as an advantage where as I don’t. I have been to a couple ranch rodeo stock horse events where at the rules meeting the judge announced that any bridle goes, some grumbling about it being unfair or wish they’d thrown a snaffle in the pickup. I never had the desire to run back to the trailer and switch bridles even thou I was showing in romals where I can’t cheat my reins.
I am definitely not one of those who thinks the snaffle is the end all be all bit. My goal is to get my horses into the bridle. If it wasn’t I should toss all my bridle bits in the scrap pile.
My comment about opening/closing gates and roping in the snaffle was regarding a comment above about needing a freehand to do those things. Well, yes you do. But you can certainly ride in a snaffle to do those things. It is not as though you can’t rope or open a gate until he is 5 and in the bridle because all of sudden you have a spare hand. It struck me as an odd comment unless I misunderstood the point.
I agree that getting a horse to go consistent and workmanlike with one hand while riding a pattern and negotiating obstacles is much harder than with two hands. I do ranch, and have been to shows where you can show with two hands with any bit except in Open classes. I like a challenge, and know I would score higher if I rode with two hands. But I want to improve more than I want to win, and doing things the easy way does not develop my skills.
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For AQHA it already legal to ride any age horse in an approved snaffle in any Rookie, Level 1/Novice Am/Novice Youth, or Level 1/Green western class…so do you mean there is talk of including Open/Senior, Amateur/Select and Youth divisions? Personally do not see that getting out of committee and approved.
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Old and cranky here too.
I do support a schooling or ‘just for fun’ division having a more relaxed rule. As Aces said above, it’s good to give a chance to show, for a started-later horse.
Agreed that you should absolutely be able to rope, open a gate, etc with a snaffle bit.
That said, I see a LOT of people riding their horse in a bridle bit that have lost the use of a lateral bend. Some of these people, being not novice folks but really good hands.
That, to me, is what a two rein setup is for. If your mostly advanced, ride in one hand horse needs to be reminded about lateral bend (won’t give it to you with a leg cue and a neck or indirect rein), you have the hackamore rein to get lateral with.
Then you either do not show until the horse is ready to compete with the regulated equipment or you go to the little local show and flip your number to ride un-judged.
Huh? Hackamore rein?
I think that may mean the double rein working on an up in the bridle horse?
Here is explained better than I can:
I know what it is. But I was referring to showing in a snaffle with one rein in each hand when talking about one or two hands on the reins. Not a two reined bit like a Pelham or the hackamore rein.
Not speaking for @Fillabeana but I believe she was commenting aside from the original topic of snaffle any year as most don’t ride in a bridle bit unless showing in the cow horse or maybe ranch. But also she may be alluding to those rushing to the bit to meet show requirements might benefit from two-handed longer or allowing a longer transition the two rein to help the horse.
I know of many who thought a longer two rein allowance would be beneficial. Given one is only allowed one year a lot of people skip it. It’s tough to learn to and why bother if in one year you have to be in the bridle?
But as she expressed stuff is lost in skipping it.
Does that mean you must ride two handed with a snaffle?
