Western Saddle Questions

[pines4equines]

I am an English rider of over 35 years and recently I broke my ankle. I’ve decided to go Western until my ankle is better. I started a thread a bit ago about western saddles and seat size, here’s my next question:

Do I need a breast plate? Why are there two girths?

I’ve decided on a relativvely inexpensive Cordova Endurance Saddle. Basically western with no horn. It is also light weight about 15 lbs. Tack store is coming out shortly to do a saddle fitting on my horse, TB/QH/Perch cross PMU.

I’m an old Dressage rider but I mainly trail ride for now. The terrain I go over is pretty flat with some rolling hills, nothing too outlandishly hilly? Is that the only reason for a breast plate?

[GallopingGrape]

Generally a breast collar is needed if you are on the trails, going up and down hills to stabilize the saddle. You only need the front cinch, the rear cinch is used when roping, so when you dally the rope around the horn, with a cow at the other end of the rope, it doesn’t pull your saddle up! I like to use my rear cinch to keep my saddle steady, but it is not necessary! My gaited horse has alot of ‘swing’ in his rear, and the rear cinch keeps it steady.

[pines4equines]

Hay

THank you so much! JUNE

[Wellspotted]

Originally posted by pines4equines:

I’ve decided on a relatively inexpensive Cordova Endurance Saddle.

Cordova? Or Cordura? If the latter, I can recommend Big Horn cordura saddles. They are said to be the best of the lightweight synthetic westerns. I love mine. It weighs around 15-16 lbs, less than some dressage saddles I’ve ridden in, and has short, round skirts.

Abetta makes a good-looking one, but I’ve heard that the seat of their endurance saddle is really hard!

[birdsong]

If your horse has high withers you might need a breastcollar also. For casual riding you don’t use the rear cinch. Its more for roping and such I believe. I’ve never used one.

[SarahR]

If you are accustomed to English why not try an Aussie? They are also lighweight, and very secure. DownUnder usually has some good sales: www.downunderweb.com

I ride Western, and I always use the rear girth, and I make sure it’s snug. If your saddle is rigged for front and rear cinches, you might want to do that. It will keept the back of the saddle from moving and ‘pivoting’ on the front of the saddle where the front girth is. If you use a rear cinch and don’t snug it there is no point in having it at all. I always use a breast collar, too. But, my horse is round and needs all this, plus a crupper

[pines4equines]

Hay

I’m not sure if it’s COrdova or Cordura, I think it’s the Cordura and you say the Big Horn is the best. I’ll have to check what brand this is.

The seat is very soft and the tack store owner said I might feel a bit uncomfortable at first because there is so much padding. I might feel pushed up and out a bit. But you know, I’m sure I can “sink” in to a little extra padding. After a 2 hour ride in my English saddle, I was pretty butt sore. And in the last year prior to breaking my ankle, I have been riding bareback as the English saddle just wasn’t fitting my horse. Man, talk about butt sore after 2 hours. I think I’m going to like this softer seat kind of riding!

[gabz]

A breast collar is a safety item. In the event the saddle starts to slip sideways, the breast collar will prevent it from rolling UNDER the horse.
I suggest a quality neoprene or soft leather one. The fluffy ones collect seeds and burrs and whatnot along a trail. The nylon web ones get quite sweaty and can be hard to clean.

Please invest in a breast collar. : )

Rear cinch probably isn’t necessary for what you are doing. Unless you are very familiar with using them, I say don’t. I’ve seen some folks that were unfamiliar with them undo the front girth before the rear girth only to have a wild horse on their hands, or the rear girth is not adjusted properly … too long and it’s a potential for a hind foot getting caught in any precarious situation; too short, and you’ve got the potential bucking strap or - a horse that THINKS it can’t breathe and flops down on the ground for no reason.

[JHUshoer20]

[QUOTE=GallopingGrape;3390851]
Generally a breast collar is needed if you are on the trails, going up and down hills to stabilize the saddle. You only need the front cinch, the rear cinch is used when roping, so when you dally the rope around the horn, with a cow at the other end of the rope, it doesn’t pull your saddle up! I like to use my rear cinch to keep my saddle steady, but it is not necessary! My gaited horse has alot of ‘swing’ in his rear, and the rear cinch keeps it steady.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=gabz;3394713]A breast collar is a safety item. In the event the saddle starts to slip sideways, the breast collar will prevent it from rolling UNDER the horse.
I suggest a quality neoprene or soft leather one. The fluffy ones collect seeds and burrs and whatnot along a trail. The nylon web ones get quite sweaty and can be hard to clean.

Please invest in a breast collar. : )

Rear cinch probably isn’t necessary for what you are doing. Unless you are very familiar with using them, I say don’t. I’ve seen some folks that were unfamiliar with them undo the front girth before the rear girth only to have a wild horse on their hands, or the rear girth is not adjusted properly … too long and it’s a potential for a hind foot getting caught in any precarious situation; too short, and you’ve got the potential bucking strap or - a horse that THINKS it can’t breathe and flops down on the ground for no reason.[/QUOTE]
All very true,
The flank strap if used must not be loose. Forget what you see in the show ring. What WP people do is often wrong. Snug it up just enough to keep him from hanging a foot in there if he kicks at a fly. If roping it needs to be tighter but it sounds as if you’re not intending to do any of that so just touching the belly not tight. Also use the keeper to attech it to the front girth. DON"T let it slide back too far!

Practical use for it besides roping is to minimize side to side sway when you ride down a hill. This can sore up a horses back. The flank strap prevents this so it is NOT as many believe just a useless decoration.
George

[SarahR]

Here’s a simple test to see if your saddle needs the rear girth (assuming it is double rigged). Saddle your horse with only a front cinch. Round pen or lounge him. Does the saddle pop up in back and flop around? If yes, your saddle/horse needs that back cinch. If you are only going slow and not for very long you probably could get away with not using one, but for the sake of your horse (if your saddle flops around, see above) a properly used rear girth is wonderful. Even with the weight of your body in the saddle it will still move around a LOT (I’ve seen miles and miles of this while riding behind other people). It should be snug, some people say as snug as your front girth but I don’t do it that tight.

Can anyone say why Western saddles tend to flop so much? Is it the length and overall size of them compared to English? I don’t ride English…are they more of a centered girthing system that doesn’t tend to cinch the front down as much as a Western saddle?

[Overo_Kid]

I think that western saddles do cinch up further in front, and the bars have a different shape, of course. The original reason for rear cinches, I think, was working cows and taking a dally around the horn.

[system]

I would recommend a breastcollar, but get one that is at least two inches wide. If your saddle does slip, a wider breastcollar will prevent it from turning into a tightrope around your horse’s chest, cutting off circulation, and chafing his skin. In my experience the neoprene ones seem to trap heat; leather is probably the best choice. Leather is also forgiving and lasts a lot longer than neoprene.

Make sure that your girth has attachment rings for the breastcollar, and check to see if your saddle has small D rings on both sides that are higher than the girth attachment (very similar to the small D rings on English saddles). Attach the breastcollar to the higher rings to prevent it from slipping down.

If you are sticking to light trail riding, a rear cinch is not needed. However if you decide to do a lot of sharp turns, stops, and fast riding with your horse, consider adding the rear cinch. Make sure your horse cannot get a hoof caught in the rear cinch.

Take care,

Patricia

[Maude]

Rear cinch

I always use a rear cinch, snugged, when I ride my dutch warmblood mare in her western saddle. When her back is loose, she uses it like a trampoline and the back of the saddle bounces all over the place. The rigging (front cinch) is in 3/4 position and really should be in 7/8 for her conformation as she has a more forward girth area. If I snug the front cinch too much, it pulls the saddle too far forward on her shoulders. By using the rear cinch, I do not have to tighten the front one too much and her belly/rear cinch keep the saddle in place and also keeps it from bouncing. I have a Reinsman All Around. It is leather and flares at the shoulders. Seat is padded and very comfy. Reinsman sets the fenders (stirrups) back an inch so your legs are under you and not kicked out in front so you ride over your leg, not behind it. As a dressage rider, I appreciate this.

I looked at quite a few saddles, synthetics and leather, and there was not room for my mare’s shoulders to move freely in any but the one I have. I think I paid $1300.00 for the saddle and another $150.00 for the custom tooled cinch with hoof pick pouch to match. Well worth it. I use a Professional’s Choice Ortho Sport Air Ride pad under it. The hollows behind my mares shoulders have filled in a bit, so I need to get the Air Ride without the extra padding in the shoulder hollows. The horse’s comfort should come first, then be sure you are comfortable. Love my western saddle. My dressage saddle is a Schleese Wave and I am equally comfy in both. Good luck! You may never go back to english once you/ve gone “cowgirl”!

[GallopingGrape]

Yes, they have saddles with “center-fire” rigging, cinches from front and rear in kind of a “V” shape and further back from the girth pocket. I agree with everyone else above, snug up that rear cinch to keep your saddle from “flopping” or “swinging” back and forth, and losen the front girth a bit. I ride in a Dakota Walker saddle with TONS of flare (lots of shoulder room), and a nice rounded skirt. It was custom made by Dakota for around $900. The tree is a “walker tree” which only means that it has a nice roomy tree, front flared bars and a slight “rock” in the bars so the saddle won’t bridge. It is the most comfortable saddle I own. It also tends to fit a wider variety of horses. I own a saddle shop and it took me two years (and dozens and dozens) of saddles (and private saddle makers) to finally find one to fit my horse - Dakota rocks! Enjoy riding in your western saddle, you won’t go back to english!!

[pines4equines]

Hay 2

Thank you everyone. I feel armed and ready for the saddle fit with the tack store.

[Wellspotted]

I think it’s great that you’re going to have your saddle fitted. Their trees are so different from English saddle trees that I would think fitting them would be a whole different issue.

As to western saddles flopping around, I’ve never seen that. Could it be that the ones that do haven’t been properly fitted to the horse?

In my experience, a lot of people who ride western don’t really know how to ride at all and don’t know about having a saddle fitted. Not to say that that’s true of all, or most, western riders, just a lot of the ones in my experience (and this is not the west, so there is no history of people working in western saddles, just going for rides in them and buying them because they want something to grab hold of with their hands). They buy what “looks good” to them, or makes them feel secure, or what they can afford, not what is made for the horse. KNOWLEDGEABLE WESTERN RIDERS, DON’T FLAME ME. I DON’T MEAN YOU!

I would think that a saddle with rigging for two cinches would be meant to be used with both cinches. Some of these have the front cinch so far forward that the flank cinch might balance the load/hold. I would also think that a horse not trained to go western would have a major problem with the flank cinch.

[GallopingGrape]

Definitely have your local tack shop assist you with fitting. We won’t even take a customers money until we are sure that the saddle fits their horse with the 3 day saddle trial. Fit the horse first, then the rider. I’ve had folks come in wanting to buy a western saddle, for a horse “that will arrive next week”… Grrr… :no: I lose money, but I certainly will not sell them a saddle… Until they purchase the horse, that is.

[SarahR]

[QUOTE=Wellspotted;3397237]

As to western saddles flopping around, I’ve never seen that. Could it be that the ones that do haven’t been properly fitted to the horse?

I would think that a saddle with rigging for two cinches would be meant to be used with both cinches. Some of these have the front cinch so far forward that the flank cinch might balance the load/hold. I would also think that a horse not trained to go western would have a major problem with the flank cinch.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s what you said, that Western saddles (double rigged ones) put so much pull towards the front of the saddle, and without the rear girth to balance it out they will flop around. I see it all the time with loose rear girths. My personal saddle will flop, and it was custom made, from a custom tree, to fit my horse.

The rear cinch is held to the front cinch with a strap, so it cannot slide back like a rodeo bucking strap. You’d want to saddle the horse with the double rigging and round pen or loung it to let the horse get the feel of it before riding (that goes without saying really).

[katarine]

Western saddles offer many ways to hang that front cinch. They can have ‘full rigging’ which puts the front cinch pulling right under the horn/pommel area…and you snug that down tight w/o a rear cinch and yes, it’s going to flop on many (not all, gentle reader) horses. Western saddles can also have lots of other rigging options for the front cinch, too, from double D rings so you can spread the load (like billets can) to 3/4 to 7/8 to centerfire…the more the saddle maker migrated toward centerfire, the less likely it’s going to flop.

IMO if a saddle’s well made and has a rear girth option, you ought to use it, unless all you do is slow ring or slow pattern work. Rear girths should ALWAYS be tethered to the front one by a little strap about 4-6" long, depends on how you want it/horse likes it. It is zero huge deal to get a horse used to a rear cinch- you ALWAYS do up the front girth first, then the rear…you snug it fairly snug and scoot him around. It’s snug- it’s not flopping or loose and slapping- he’ll be fine. As he airs out and it loosens, you’ll adjust it and keep it snug.

I ride my QH in both girths everytime I ride him. The saddle is designed for me to use them, and I do.I love the effect a rear girth has…to my mind it’s like running in slide-in tennis shoes w/o laces…and real running shoes. I like keeping that saddle close to his body.

[Diamond_Jake]

I think it is interesting you are going to a western saddle after a broken ankle, and I will explain why:
My last western saddle had pretty stiff fenders. My right knee and ankle would always be sore, from the constant soft pressure of having to use that part of my leg to hold the stirrup out. Or, when those muscles tired, they would get sore from the fender and stirrup pulling my toe in towards the horse.

Yes, I could have worked on tying, oiling and turning my stirrups more, but I would recommend that if the western saddle you buy does not already have pre-turned stirrups, buy the attachments that allow your feet to swivel to their most comfortble position. I think your ankle will thank you for it!

I like my english saddle, for the leathers are easier on my legs for position, but as always, each has their preference!