Western saddle sweat patterns

[Pocket_Pony]

Ok, I’m sure I’m driving y’all crazy with my million questions about western saddle fit, but here goes another one:

What should the sweat pattern look like?

I ask because the saddle I have on trial now has a very different sweat pattern than the saddles I’ve ridden in in the past - english, treeless, and my old trail saddle.

The current sweat pattern has a broader dry channel than any of my other saddles. The sweat starts farther away from the spine than I’m used to seeing. Is that because of the shape of the tree has more surface area and it is making consistent contact? Or does it start too low (toward the barrel vs. the spine)?

Here’s a picture of the sweat pattern: http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Big%20Mac%20%202005%20BLM%20mustang/SRsweatpattern_zpsbe66e7a0.jpg

ACK!!!

It dawned on me that my local tack store has a wide selection of western saddles and since I upped my budget they may have something I’d like to see - I think they have a few McCalls so I’m going to go in and see what I can bring home to try.

This process is so annoying!!!

[Fillabeana]

Without seeing the saddle on, then the sweat pattern, I can’t make too much comment, but the spine channel isn’t a big worry to me.

What IS a big worry, and probably a source of ‘saddle fit’ problems, is that Mac’s back is down. He needs to use his abs (and other muscles) to lift his ribcage. He’s got a big 'ol sag in him.

If he is bracing his back down and away from the saddle, you will most certainly get ‘saddle fitting’ issues that are really Mac’s bracing issues.

If Mac is just carrying a big sag (without a big brace) you’re a little better off, but again a reasonably fitting saddle will fit MUCH better if he will raise his ribcage, and without having him lift his ribcage/withers/back you won’t find a saddle that fits him beautifully and leaves a great sweat pattern. You can get close, though.

http://www.equinestudies.org/ring_revisited_2008/ring_of_muscles_2008_pdf.pdf

I would seriously consider going to a Dr. Deb anatomy class, which is much more than ‘this is the trapezius muscle’ but applies that identification to concrete issues, like collection and saddle fit.
http://esiforum.mywowbb.com/forum1/1382.html
She’s teaching her only class in Turlock this year, which is not far away from you. You can do all five days, or just one or two.

This process is so annoying!!!

Yes, it is! I feel your pain.
There are plenty of good saddle fitters out there who can help get a saddle that is the right shape for the horse, onto the horse.

Unfortunately, there are NOT a lot of good saddle fitters who have a deep understanding of how to help a horse learn to carry himself so that a saddle fits how it should. And for that matter, not a lot of trainers/teachers who really can get a horse carrying himself well, and mentally happy about it at the same time.

Anyway, feel free to send me a PM, I have a copy of Dave Genadek’s saddle fit DVD which I would loan out to you. Dr. Deb recommends this frist to anyone who asks her about saddle fit issues.

Mac doesn’t have some strange, hard-to-fit back.
He does, though, need to use his body properly so that his saddle (and yes, you do need a saddle that is reasonably the right shape for him, but that shouldn’t be really, really difficult) doesn’t hurt him.

[Pocket_Pony]

Hi Fillabeana, thanks again for all your information. I think Mac’s back looks dropped because he was standing on a bit of an incline whereby his hind end was lower than his front (which was standing in a divot that he had dug into the ground by pawing because his new girlfriend was out of sight). While he is a bit croup high, he has a very strong back and I don’t actually consider him to be hard to fit. My purpose in taking the poorly-set-up photo was just to get an image of the sweat pattern.

Mac actually seems to like this saddle and lifts his back well in it, and I certainly like it too, but in the back of my mind I have this nagging worry that the angle of the bars is too wide for him and the dryness along the spine may be because the top part of the bars is carrying more weight. I’ll continue to try it to see. In the meantime, I’ve gotten a Martin Wade from the local tack store that I’m going to try today for comparison. I’ve got both saddles for a few days so I can go back and forth and see if I feel/notice any difference.

I am very conscious of biomechanics and proper and correct riding to have the horse best use his body for long term soundness and I’m always eager to learn more. While I’m not the best rider in the world, I have been riding for over 30 years and always under the guidance of a trainer (some better than others, of course!). Anyway, I think I will PM you because I have more questions and I’m sure everyone is getting sick of them!

[goodhors]

Without seeing the saddle pad, knowing material it is made of, I would think the pattern is a bit small. I am not happy to see the dry areas on his wither and going on down, which can mean pressure from saddle, poor fit.

I am used to seeing horses with a very wet back, because I use old-fashioned synthetic fleece saddle pads under my saddles. Mine tend to have totally wet backs under these kind of pads, including across the spine areas. I would rather see a horse with a totally wet back, than intermittent dry and wet places.

If your horse is downhill, you need to do something, like adding pads to his front hooves/shoes. This is to get his back leveled, not letting the saddle push forward during rides. Higher hindquarters pushes saddles down on his shoulders, withers, because the pressure from above is greater in the front end Saddle just won’t stay put, with a downhill back, uneven front and hind ends. Gravity is against you in this, until you raise the front end and get his back leveled. He will PROBABLY move better when level, as an added incentive to changing his shoe package. Real hard to lift his back, get under himself, when his front end is lower than the hind end.

Sorry, having a downhill horse is going to create a lot of problems in the long run, though the shoeing with pads should help quite a bit.

[Fillabeana]

in the back of my mind I have this nagging worry that the angle of the bars is too wide for him

It might be. The equivalent of semi-QH bars is usually about right as a starting point for most horses, unless they are narrow TBs or extra-stout QH or draftish types. Some saddle trees are defined not by ‘Full’ or ‘Semi’ quarter horse bars, but by the degree of the tree at the front, 90 degrees being today’s standard-issue and 93 degrees for the wider, rounder horses.

Buck’s young bay roan gelding Reuben is made very downhill, as are many QH roping/sprinting types.
I saw Reuben during his ‘second week’ of going to clinics, and again a year later.
Buck has Reuben moving quite well, by having him coil his loins and lift his ribcage/withers. This is harder to do with a downhill horse than a warmblood or morgan type of horse, but it can be done and without shoes or pads.
Some VERY downhill horses need a bit of strategic saddle padding (built up in front) so the saddle doesn’t throw the rider forward.

Having a downhill horse that carries himself on the forehand will absolutely create problems. The good news is that even a downhill horse can collect himself and carry himself in a way that promotes athletic ability and soundness. I see no reason Mac couldn’t carry himself ‘uphill’, even if he is built downhill.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=goodhors;7162314]

If your horse is downhill, you need to do something, like adding pads to his front hooves/shoes. This is to get his back leveled, not letting the saddle push forward during rides. [/QUOTE]

Actually, this saddle didn’t push forward during the ride, but was sliding back - it was kind of funny because the pad stayed in place where I put it, and the saddle slid back on top of the pad so I had to readjust it. It eventually settled in its spot, though, so when I readjusted the pad it was fine.

[Filabeana] Some saddle trees are defined not by ‘Full’ or ‘Semi’ quarter horse bars, but by the degree of the tree at the front, 90 degrees being today’s standard-issue and 93 degrees for the wider, rounder horses.

The one saddle I have on trial is 92 degrees. The other isn’t defined, but is a Martin Wade. Okay, I am convinced now. THIS is a saddle I don’t want to give back! Mac was surprisingly forward! Very forward, very happy to work, very happy to work over his back and not fighting to be on the bit (or do you say “in the bridle” in western terms?). I had a treeless saddle on trial a few weeks ago and by his forwardness I thought he was happy to work, but I just couldn’t stay with all the motion of the saddle and the lack of twist made my hip hurt. With this saddle he had the same level of forwardness but I could be with him instead of working against the saddle.

Now the trouble is deciding what to do. I don’t want to give this saddle back! It is rough-out in the seat and fenders which I thought I wouldn’t like but actually it isn’t bad. The seat is a 16". In english saddles I have ridden in anywhere from a 16.5 to 19" jumping saddle (not ideal, but my husband’s and I didn’t mind it too much) to my current 18" dressage saddle. What I like in a seat is room to move, I don’t like feeling stuck in one place in the saddle. Before I sat in this I thought the seat might be too big, but after riding in it it doesn’t feel that way. I’m more scared of ordering something smaller and having it be uncomfortable (I had some unfortunate crotch pain in the past from a saddle that had a rise that didn’t work well with me) than having something a bit roomier in the seat.

Now I get all the love about the Wade saddle. I really felt like I was in a good position and Mac was very happy in it. I’m looking forward to taking it out on a trail ride to see how he feels in it going up and down steep hills.

[Pocket_Pony]

Ok, now I take some of it back. Today’s ride in the Wade was horrible. Mac was pissy and the back of the saddle felt like it was slapping me in the butt at the canter. He was not as forward and happy in his transitions. Sweat pattern was fine. With each saddle there’s a dry spot behind his right shoulder that actually started from my last trail saddle so that doesn’t really help me in the decision-making process, as I think the dry spot will continue to be there (it has shown its face with each saddle I’ve tried).

Sigh. Will go back to the other one again for comparison. Have I mentioned that I hate saddle shopping? After today’s ride, now I prefer the other one! GAK!!!

[Fillabeana]

Yeah, a 92 degree tree is more for a Haflinger or draft cross or really round/wide mutton-withered quarter horse. The look of the top of Mac’s back struck me as more rooftop, less beer keg. Maybe not A-line, 15-feet-of-snow-shedding nordic cabin rooftop like a Thoroughbred, but housetop where you design a roof to shed some snow. The 92 and 93 degree trees are more like the flatter California rooftops that shed rain, but almost never get snow.

That the saddle moves, and you have to re-place it on his back is not good. My Wade saddle, on my withered horses with the correct amount of saddle pad, don’t move around once they are ‘home’, with the cinch in the ‘medium rare’ range- not near tight enough to rope with (well done) or even tight like they were when I mounted hours ago (medium-well), but not hanging loose under the belly (rare)…if that’s a good analogy. So unless you were a total novice… (which YOU aren’t, but some other person trying to fit a western saddle could be a total novice)… putting the saddle in the wrong place altogether, it shouldn’t shift much. There should be a ‘home’ for the saddle/horse interface just as there should be a ‘home’ for the saddle/your butt interface.

The roughout seat and fenders are nice, while the leather is still fleshy. They give you a nice grip like full-seat breeches do. Even if you think it’s unattractive (some do, I don’t) your butt and legs hide the roughout from view when you’re sitting in the saddle. Over time, you will make a definite butt-and-thighprint in the roughout, and those parts will get smooth. No problem, except the seat won’t be so grippy anymore.

Now, I’d suspect a 16" seat would be too big for you in general, but if it is putting you in a great position, a nice ‘home’ in which you are not fighting to keep your feet under you or your underparts from bumping against the rise, that is the most important part. Is it easy to open your legs out (like Bryan Neubert showed you) to ask for more forward? I sort of use my feet in the stirrups like a children’s swing when my legs open out. My horses respond to that, and I can let my legs ‘fall’ quietly and gently against their sides. If the saddle puts me in a funny position, my legs won’t do that.
Also, is it easy to put your leg back to ask for the hindquarters to move? If so, a good sign.
You want the stirrups on the balls of your feet, supporting the weight of your legs comfortably. Buck describes that as being able to work off the balls of your feet- you can stand up and take weight out of your seat, or sit and move your legs freely, not pushing your weight down through your heels but allowing your heels to go down past the balls of your feet when needed. Take your feet in and out of the stirrups, feeling your seat bear all the weight, and feet back in and take all weight off slowly to a ‘two-point’. If you find yourself bearing extra weight in your feet to take weight off your crotch, that’s a bad sign. If your butt is happy whether your feet are in the stirrups or not, that’s a good sign.

As for ‘seat size’, that is measured from the base of the horn to the seam on the cantle. Different styles of saddle (steep, high cantle or low, swept-back cantle) will measure differently. What you need to know, though, is how much room your thigh has between the swells (if there are swells) and the cantle where your thigh rests. So a 16" seat on one saddle, might give your thigh exactly the same amount of room as, say, a 14 1/2" seat with a different swell/cantle configuration on a different saddle.

And seat ‘size’ will not tell you about where the stirrups are placed relative to your pelvis. A ‘rule of thumb’ is that the stirrups be hung four inches in front of the ‘low spot’ in the seat, but that can be thrown off some if you have a big, or a small, butt. I have a Billy Cook roping saddle, that puts my leg out in front of me a little too much. My mom, who is 2" shorter than me but has a slightly larger behind, sits just right in the saddle, and comfortably. Her, uh, glutes are bigger so her pelvis is supported farther forward from the cantle, and thus the stirrups hang just right for her legs.

You could post a photo or a short video if you like, so we can see how much room you have and where the saddle puts your leg, but what Mac has to say and what your butt has to say would be most important.

Now the trouble is deciding what to do. I don’t want to give this saddle back!

I’m more scared of ordering something smaller and having it be uncomfortable

If this saddle is a great fit for you AND Mac, I would be inclined to keep the saddle rather than ordering one. Unless a saddle has something you really hate (like, oh, I don’t know, tooling of poinsettias and poinsettias reminded you of your dearly beloved dog that died from eating poinsettias)…
or there is a must-have on your list, like a different kind of horn that can’t be modified…
I would keep the saddle in hand and not order one ‘just like it’.

If I try on a pair of boots in a store, and they are comfortable, I will buy THOSE boots, because there can be subtle differences in handmade/hand assembled items that can make the finished products slightly different from each other. I have two pairs of blue jeans, same size, same manufacturer, same color and fabric…and one pair fits me more comfortably than the other.
So unless there is something you can’t live with, or without, about the saddle in hand and your butt and Mac’s back have told you the saddle in hand is a keeper, I’d KEEP it rather than ordering a different one.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=Fillabeana;7163913]

That the saddle moves, and you have to re-place it on his back is not good.

[B]The Wade saddle didn’t move - the other one did.

How “tight” do you make your rear cinch? Today I put it up one hole from yesterday whereby it touched his belly but wasn’t snug.
[/B]
The roughout seat and fenders are nice, while the leather is still fleshy. They give you a nice grip like full-seat breeches do. Even if you think it’s unattractive (some do, I don’t) your butt and legs hide the roughout from view when you’re sitting in the saddle. Over time, you will make a definite butt-and-thighprint in the roughout, and those parts will get smooth. No problem, except the seat won’t be so grippy anymore.

I really have no opinion about rough out - doesn’t bother me in the least.

Now, I’d suspect a 16" seat would be too big for you in general, but if it is putting you in a great position, a nice ‘home’ in which you are not fighting to keep your feet under you or your underparts from bumping against the rise, that is the most important part. Is it easy to open your legs out (like Bryan Neubert showed you) to ask for more forward?

Yes.

Also, is it easy to put your leg back to ask for the hindquarters to move? If so, a good sign.

Yes, but it seems like the rear cinch gets in the way - do you just get used to that? Also, I don’t wear spurs currently, but do they ever get stuck back there?

You want the stirrups on the balls of your feet, supporting the weight of your legs comfortably. Buck describes that as being able to work off the balls of your feet- you can stand up and take weight out of your seat, or sit and move your legs freely, not pushing your weight down through your heels but allowing your heels to go down past the balls of your feet when needed. Take your feet in and out of the stirrups, feeling your seat bear all the weight, and feet back in and take all weight off slowly to a ‘two-point’. If you find yourself bearing extra weight in your feet to take weight off your crotch, that’s a bad sign. If your butt is happy whether your feet are in the stirrups or not, that’s a good sign.

I think I had the stirrups too long today. Remembering how Buck and Bryan look in the saddle, they definitely had more bend in their legs than I did today.

As for ‘seat size’, that is measured from the base of the horn to the seam on the cantle. Different styles of saddle (steep, high cantle or low, swept-back cantle) will measure differently. What you need to know, though, is how much room your thigh has between the swells (if there are swells) and the cantle where your thigh rests. So a 16" seat on one saddle, might give your thigh exactly the same amount of room as, say, a 14 1/2" seat with a different swell/cantle configuration on a different saddle.

And seat ‘size’ will not tell you about where the stirrups are placed relative to your pelvis. A ‘rule of thumb’ is that the stirrups be hung four inches in front of the ‘low spot’ in the seat, but that can be thrown off some if you have a big, or a small, butt. I have a Billy Cook roping saddle, that puts my leg out in front of me a little too much. My mom, who is 2" shorter than me but has a slightly larger behind, sits just right in the saddle, and comfortably. Her, uh, glutes are bigger so her pelvis is supported farther forward from the cantle, and thus the stirrups hang just right for her legs.

You could post a photo or a short video if you like, so we can see how much room you have and where the saddle puts your leg, but what Mac has to say and what your butt has to say would be most important.

Here’s a video I took today and edited down to a few minutes. Sorry for the single camera angle/focus, I had no helper today to do a good video.

http://youtu.be/BCQH_R3tQOg

If this saddle is a great fit for you AND Mac, I would be inclined to keep the saddle rather than ordering one. Unless a saddle has something you really hate (like, oh, I don’t know, tooling of poinsettias and poinsettias reminded you of your dearly beloved dog that died from eating poinsettias)…
or there is a must-have on your list, like a different kind of horn that can’t be modified…
I would keep the saddle in hand and not order one ‘just like it’.

If I try on a pair of boots in a store, and they are comfortable, I will buy THOSE boots, because there can be subtle differences in handmade/hand assembled items that can make the finished products slightly different from each other. I have two pairs of blue jeans, same size, same manufacturer, same color and fabric…and one pair fits me more comfortably than the other.
So unless there is something you can’t live with, or without, about the saddle in hand and your butt and Mac’s back have told you the saddle in hand is a keeper, I’d KEEP it rather than ordering a different one.[/QUOTE]

[B]I totally agree. That’s why I’m so worried about ordering something new - what if the one I order I don’t like for some reason, like there’s some thing just a tad different (other than seat size, perhaps) in the tree or something that makes just a bit of wrong-type of difference?!

Thoughts on sizing from the video? I do need to put my stirrups up, but otherwise??
[/B]

[Fillabeana]

OK, in short- I think the saddle is too big for you.
At 0:28, when you scoot forward, you are scooting yourself forward over the stirrups, and THAT is where they belong under you. With your butt against the cantle, your feet are a bit out in front. Not terribly chair-seat out in front, but still not right.
If I ride in my 6’3" husband’s Wade saddle, I scoot forward so my feet are over the stirrups. I then have no cantle support, but my balance is right. I can’t ride it too long, though, because the geometry of the ground seat isn’t right, right there.

I also did a freeze at about 1:49 with you at the sit-phase of the posting trot, again your feet were out front.
Also froze at 3:39, canter left lead, again your feet are not underneath you but out front.

Shortening the stirrups will put more bend in your leg, but won’t put you in the right place on THIS saddle. I actually think the bend in your leg/knee is just right, you are stable and not reaching for your stirrups.

If a 15" seat saddle felt wrong, too little room in front of you, perhaps the saddle had too steep/fast a rise to it, or a ground seat that doesn’t agree with the shape of your pelvis. The bottom/contact profile of human male seat-bones is quite different from female ones.

The rear cinch should be just snug, but if you get it too tight you can have a rodeo. My colt, and my really hot mare, will buck if it is tight and they really bend their ribcage for something, and the rear cinch ‘grabs’ them. And yes, the rear cinch can get in the way of a spur or a leg-back cue. I just try to remember what Buck says, and that is the farther down you USE your leg, the more ‘primitive’ the cue. You should get to the point where your ‘leg back’ on the horse is just sort of a gesture of intention, and your leg doesn’t really have to move much. Remember watching Buck and Bryan riding, and how you could see exactly all the times they were cueing their horses by moving their legs…not!?

MOST importantly, at 0:02, yes, Mac is FABULOUSLY adorable. Seriously, you have ‘done a good job’ with this horse in that you have preserved his personality and expression, because without that you will NEVER have a true partnership. A horse that has the idea that his person is a salient, sometimes sensible being that can be communicated with, is a treasure. There are plenty of ‘obedient’ or ‘compliant’ horses that seem safe and reliable, and do just what they are ‘trained’ to do, but that have the idea that they have no other choice…much like Elizabeth Smart following her captor peacefully down the road.

[qhwpmare]

You could try a sheepskin seat save. Horse looks happy enough with the saddle, it does look a bit big for you though !

[Pocket_Pony]

Now that you mention it, I wonder if doing up the rear cinch one hole was bothering Mac, because he kept turning to look at his sides a little bit every now and then. Good thing to remember.

Yes, the saddle is too big. I found a used 15" that I’m going to pick up tomorrow - fingers crossed!

And thanks for your kind words about Mac’s adorable-ness. He has a big head but when you look at it straight on, it is pretty darn cute! It is funny because I didn’t mean to get him in the camera like that - I opened up the screen and was positioning it to where I could see most of the arena and he happened to be positioned just-so and was watching me. I do love him! :yes:

[Fillabeana]

I think you’ve come up with a saddle that fits Mac’s back well- a saddle with wide Wade fork/bars and a medium angle (90 degrees or approximately semi-QH bars). So that’s good- you have a good sweat pattern and a stable saddle.

As for fitting you, here’s some food for thought; you might have to find a ground seat that agrees with your female pelvis. Most production saddles will have a generic ground seat that works reasonably well for most, but the male and female pelvis and thus interaction with the seat and stirrups is pretty different:

(From Dr. Deb Bennett’s site http://www.equinestudies.org/ )

http://www.equinestudies.org/whos_built_best_2008/whos_built_best_2008_pdf1.pdf

Some women can’t get their leg underneath them well, as simply an anatomical issue. You didn’t look strained or uncomfortable at 0:28 in the video, when you scootched yourself forward more over the stirrups, so I don’t think that finding a saddle that has stirrups hung for your leg ‘under you’, positioned as it is in 0:28 is a problem for you.

I’ve also taken a bit of clinic time to watch Reata ride the last two years. She has an unstrained appearance with a leg that hangs beautifully, and it looks much like her dad’s leg.

But there are some women who won’t be able to sit in a secure position unless their knee is a bit more bent, and their stirrups a bit more forward. I wanted to make sure, since I’ve been talking a LOT about having stirrups hung underneath your seat like a dressage saddle, that I wasn’t mis-directing you.

[Pocket_Pony]

I’ll have to look at those links tonight when I get home from work. I have read about the differences in women’s pelvises and men’s and the positioning of the hips and hip joint. While I’d love to look like a man with long legs and a base of support that easily comes under the hips, I do have (IMHO looking in the mirror anyway and comparing myself to other people in my ballet class) longer femurs and shorter shins, so I think it doesn’t come as naturally, although in some pictures of me in a dressage saddle it doesn’t look too bad: http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Big%20Mac%20%202005%20BLM%20mustang/MacOct8017.jpg

I have never been one to be able to really get my heels down, despite a lifetime riding h/j. My ankle bones just don’t have the space in there to articulate that way.
Thanks for all the help!

[craz4crtrs]

I feel your pain. I have a really hard horse to fit and had a modified wade custom made to fit the horse. Fit her beautifully, I fought it for 7 months. The seat was too wide, the cantle too steep…more a shovel type, and the stirrup bars way too far forward. I sold it. I decided a wade wasn’t for me.

I have a custom Courts ladies all around on order and it will take several more months to get here. I borrowed an old Courts roper, super heavy, but fit my mare well. I didn’t find it uncomfortable, but the pommel was pretty low and so was the cantle. I tried and tried to find an used one, and drove 4 hrs up and back to pick up a Courts used barrel saddle. The bar angle was way to steep, she needs a really flat bar, like 94 degrees. Courts was fantastic to work with and we figured out though the barrel saddles were considered full bar, the angles and shape is much different than the all around and roping saddles. I ordered a stock Courts lite roper and will drive 2.5 hrs tomorrow with my mare to pick it up and try it on her. Same tree as what I have custom ordered, just a different model. So, I may end up with two new saddles that will fit both my horses.

If a wade or modified wade turns out not to be want you want, check out the Courts saddles. Not cheap, but very nice quality.

[craz4crtrs]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7165767]
I’ll have to look at those links tonight when I get home from work. I have read about the differences in women’s pelvises and men’s and the positioning of the hips and hip joint. While I’d love to look like a man with long legs and a base of support that easily comes under the hips, I do have (IMHO looking in the mirror anyway and comparing myself to other people in my ballet class) longer femurs and shorter shins, so I think it doesn’t come as naturally, although in some pictures of me in a dressage saddle it doesn’t look too bad: http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Big%20Mac%20%202005%20BLM%20mustang/MacOct8017.jpg

I have never been one to be able to really get my heels down, despite a lifetime riding h/j. My ankle bones just don’t have the space in there to articulate that way.
Thanks for all the help![/QUOTE]

You definitely want the stirrups under you and a smaller seat size. What size dressage saddle do you ride in? What tree size for your horse? I comfortably ride in a 15-16 conventional western saddle, my wade was 15.5. I can ride in some barrel saddles, I had a Cactus barrel saddle last year while my wade was being made. It was a generous 14.5 and comfy, but not wide enough for my mare.

Some people love Martin saddles, I tried to buy one, but too steep of shoulder angles, even in an 8 in gullet. With a horse that has an angled shoulder, you may get a very nice fit there, or with one of the Cactus models. They even have their own wade styles if you decide you like one.

The pictures show the wade saddle is huge for you. How is the other used one you were going to pick up today?

[Pocket_Pony]

My dressage saddle is an 18" and it fits my leg/thigh well.

I picked up two saddles today - a Bill Bullard Wade and a Herring Roper. The BB is unfortunately too narrow at 89 degrees - it is stamped that it was custom made for someone. I won’t even try to ride in it because I put it on Mac and it was just too tight around the withers. The Herring actually looks good and the seat was comfortable in the store so I’ll ride in it tomorrow to see how it feels. I also got a bona-fide 3/4" saddle pad, vs. a thin one that I was borrowing from a friend, so we’ll see how that changes things. With that saddle pad I’m actually going to give the first saddle that was a bit wide a try and see if it fits any differently.

Really I don’t think Mac is a hard fit, it is just a matter of finding the right saddle and when it costs a lot of money to ship back and forth I want to be careful of how/where I choose to do that. And tack stores, even though they have a big selection, don’t always have exactly what one is looking for in terms of style/seat size/tree size, etc.

Anyone heard of Herring Saddle Co.? A search on Google didn’t really tell me much except contact information so I might give them a call tomorrow. I can’t find a stamp on the saddle that would give me any info so I’m kind of .

Sitting in the Wade again in the store and then sitting in the Herring, the Herring felt like there was a little “pocket” for my inner thighs, if that makes sense, so the twist felt like it fit me better. And of course at 15" the seat size is better.

Really all that matters is that it is comfortable for both of us!

[Fillabeana]

This is a photo of a well-used roughout saddle.
http://www.dhrss.com/images/saddles/used/02-02-11/16-wade.jpg

You can see the imprint the rider left where his body contacted the saddle.
Those spots wear smooth, so the ‘grip’ factor will go away. But I still like a roughout saddle, myself. You just brush the dust off, and don’t worry about any gorgeous tooling or bite marks from the colt you’re ponying!

[Flash44]

Pocket Pony,

What is your ultimate goal with your riding? You kind of want your saddle to match your goal because they are frequently built with a specific goal in mind. The roping saddles have the horn incorporated into the tree because they are meant to have a cow tied to them without breaking off the horn. The seat of the saddle will be a little different as well depending on the discipline.

I have a Circle Y Julie Goodnight Monarch saddle and I LOVE it. I use it for every day riding and also local showing on my wp mare. It puts me in a good position, and it’s super comfy. My mare has a very “normal” back, and it fits her well. I always have a very even, rectangular sweat pattern. Here is a link to the saddles -
http://circley.shptron.com/c/saddles_julie-goodnight-peak-performance
I’m actually ordering another one with a wide tree for my super wide pony, but I’m going to get the one with the rounded skirt since she is only 14 h and shorter backed.

And Mac is so cute!!!