Curious about people’s opinions on Western seat shape?
For example, something like this with a more flat seat
http://outwestsaddlery.com/assets/images/Rigging_position.jpg
Or something like this where there is more of an upward slope towards the front
What do you consider to be the advantages/disadvantages of either? Which would you say allows you to sit in a more balanced position over your feet?
Thanks!
The flatter seat will give you more room to move around. I like an open seat in my dressage saddle. My current western saddle has more of a sweet spot where I sit, and it has a steeper rise. In the past, I’ve had trouble with a steep rise in my dressage saddle (painful crotch problems, for some TMI), but for some reason the rise doesn’t bother me in my western saddle and I love where it puts me.
Another thing to consider would be hard seat or not…my trail saddle has a great cushy seat and I can be in it for hours with no pain in my seatbones. I cannot ride in my dressage saddle on the trail - my seatbones HURT after even as little as an hour . . . yet I love that saddle for “doing dressage.”
So . . . shopping, are you? 
Keep us posted on what you’re looking at because I can shop and learn vicariously through you!
Edited to add: Putting you in a balanced position is also going to have to do with how/where the stirrups hang and the seat size. With an open, flat seat, you can go in a smaller seat size than with something that has a built-up seat or steeper rise. And then you need to consider if you’re going to want bucking rolls or not. So . . . it all depends.
Let’s just say I am doing some preliminary research in hopes of future shopping (assuming a few things fall into place) 
My current saddle has a hard seat, walking for a long time makes me fidgety, but if we are moving more, I am okay with it so as long as the hard seat fits my seat, I’m fine with that.
I’ve had issues with dressage saddles being a bit to “there” in the front as well, so I think I get what you’re saying there PP
I’ve kind of started on this journey by reading article after article on the www.rodnikkel.com website so I went looking at some of the saddle makers that use their trees.
I prefer a flatter seat, just because I can move around in it more. Maybe I would be better off in something with more of a rise, I don’t know. I love my Bob Marshall treeless, and my old Collegiate dressage has given me some issues, but I didn’t know if that was the saddle or the way it fit my horse. Now I’m thinking it’s the saddle.
This is my current saddle, and the shape the seat has.
I don’t think I’ve ever ridden in a flatter seated western saddle so not sure what it’d feel like.
My main goal is balanced over my feet and comfortable enough to go on a long trail ride.
Got some info back from one person and she said
The problem with a flatter seat like that is that it feels really wide because there’s nothing between your thighs. It’s like sitting on a beach ball, and there’s nothing there to keep you from tipping forward. That would be the other problem - you would feel like you are always falling forward in the saddle.
There’s a reason why pretty much all saddles slope up from the center of the seat forward, whether it’s a traditional western saddle, a barrel racing saddle, a dressage saddle, etc - that upslope helps you stay in a comfortable spot in the saddle and makes the seat more comfortable.
There are a few different variables at play in here, and it’s worth keeping them separate in your mind. Trying to draw conclusions from particular saddles (which are a blend of compromises) can be misleading.
An easy one first off is padded vs not. I’ve heard for years that a padded seat is good for shorter rides, but you should stick with an unpadded seat for longer days. I ride a hard seat as a result, and I wish I’d gone with at least a light padding layer. 8 hour days in the saddle are still tough even with a nicely shaped hard seat, if you’re not used to them!
One universal, however, is that padding won’t make a bad groundseat (the structure under the outermost seating leather) rideable.
Next, the rise of the saddle is somewhat independent of the cross sectional shape of the saddle. You ride mostly in the “sweet spot” of the saddle, and the profile in front of that only really factors in if your balance is challenged. I’ve dug hard into this, and the only real benefit of a sharper rise that most will agreed to (for a balanced seat) is a bit more stability in sharper maneuvers or in hard stops.
Where the sweet spot is along the seat is important, and differentiates schools of thought in saddle design (jineta vs brida). “Balanced” seat can be anywhere from the sweet spot in roughly the center to a spot about a third of the way in front of the cantle, from what I’ve experienced. If that sweet spot is right against the cantle, it’s a brida seat (or chair seat).
Now, it’s NOT been my experience that you can always just look at the silhoutte of the saddle and see where the low spot is. On most, maybe, but the seat is a 3D shape. Some can ride balanced without the low spot being the theoretical ideal.
Last, if you really want a balanced position, the stirrups must swing from a point about one foot length in front of the sweet spot on the saddle. Makes sense…if you can’t stand without scooting your butt forward to get over your own feet, it’s not a completely balanced seat.
After all that, to each their own.
Extra last - there is such thing as “twist”, at least in concept, in a western saddle. It’s not set by the twist in the tree to the degree that it is in an english saddle by the webbing (seats are carved in western saddles more than strung up), but the concepts are similar. The profiles of cross sections of a saddle are important. Too flat can feel like sitting on a barrel, too crowned can feel like it’s prying your pin bones apart. Likewise, too much twist can feel like you’re falling forwards, too little like there’s no sweet spot etc etc.
Thanks aktill, was hoping you would chime in
Lots to think about, that’s for sure!
Not much to add to what Aktill said. I prefer a seat with just a bit of padding, although hard seats are nicer for arena riding and I sometimes wish I’d ordered differently on mine.
That said, I find that the shape of the seat has a great sweet spot, puts my legs in a nice position (slightly forward of dressage - for stopping as I’m a reiner), and I don’t move even on big stops.
Nothing better than a bobs! We have 3 different models we love. My favorite is the schmersal model, I really like the tree. It’s discontinues I believe but you might be able to find something used. Bobs are very pricy new but if you can find one used, they’re worth there weight in gold.
[QUOTE=froglander;7447732]
This is my current saddle, and the shape the seat has.
I don’t think I’ve ever ridden in a flatter seated western saddle so not sure what it’d feel like.
My main goal is balanced over my feet and comfortable enough to go on a long trail ride.[/QUOTE]
It fits the horse well, too.
And what a nice model. What kind is the big, uphill thing you have there?
this is my favorite, my Rocking R Lady Trail saddle, hard seat
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4981119534433&l=e98add19f9
and its twin with a bicycle seat
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203112093351874&l=b1b2813d65
I am usually the photographer but this is the second one on my TWH
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1083447855077&l=c4929c50cf
[QUOTE=mvp;7448238]
It fits the horse well, too.
And what a nice model. What kind is the big, uphill thing you have there?[/QUOTE]
My saddle is a combination of the B-Light trail and B-Light ranch saddles from
http://www.rwbowmansaddleco.com/
I just feel like a saddle should fit my horse better 
Oh geez, your flat seat saddle example would have me limping for days! I like the saddle you own the most, something like that I can ride for days and days. Your other example saddle would be my pick too. I’m very short and through two c-sections learned that I have narrow hips (who knew?) and need a twist in the saddle in order not to have hip displacement. We usually ride very long days 8 hours or more a few days in a row per week, so weekend warrior types.
I’m not a huge fan of a padded seat but it’s not a deal breaker. I tend to like a slick hard seat but with a SHAPE to it. On a long ride it’s nice to be able to make microadjustments and move around a bit. Until your horse does something unexpected and then a roughout Beartrap is nice! :lol:
I think I’ve ridden that Rocking R saddle and it was very comfortable to me. Even just looking at it I can see the twist would be a help to me. I rode a BMSS (treeless) for a long time on a wide horse and the lack of any support started to really bother my hips. It was like sitting on the proverbial barrel.
Some people say a wade will throw you forward but I didn’t experience that; mine was very comfortable to me and had it fit my horse I would still have it. I think if you don’t have any seat support it will tend to throw you into a bit of a chair seat on a long day.
froglander, was that saddle made for you or did you buy it used or stock? I ask because in the description it says it has FQH bars and I found those have too much rock for Mac.
Do you like the seat for yourself? Do you find it comfortable for you? Do you have a picture of yourself in it? If you do like it and enjoy riding in it, have you tried other pads to see what else might help? I know people love them, but I didn’t like the 5-Star pad for Mac…
I got the saddle new and picked out the features I wanted. The tree is a Steele Equi-Fit tree with the SE fit that was chosen with some help of the person I purchased it through after a bunch of pictures of the forms on Cody. I never tried a bare tree on him though. When I first got the saddle it was not comfortable, it was like the seat was too square. They kindly let me send it back and shaped the seat better as well as turning the stirrups for me at no additional charge. On a long ride that involves a lot of walking, it can make my seat bones sore, but for regular riding in the arena or around the barn it’s fine.
It was really hard to find any pictures of me actually /in/ the saddle, I’m usually taking the pictures
This picture is from last May
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/K-Bog3rLq7-szploEXU4SzoZlyy8-SeCQvg1ZE3BlJk?feat=directlink
And here is a short clip of me riding in it from a lesson a few weeks ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDpcifqeJH4
Oh, he is so cute!
Do I remember you saying you grew up doing h/j or maybe eventing (or riding in a jumping saddle)? I ask because your stirrups look more h/j length, and you are in a more forward seat position. Is that how/why you feel not in proper balance or like your balance isn’t over your feet? It could be because the saddle is too wide and goes down in front a bit, or it could just be because of how you grew up riding. My apologies if I read something into your original post that wasn’t there - I grew up riding h/j and have had a really hard time changing my body position for dressage and now in my western saddle - I want to incline forward with my upper body, so I’m not picking on you!
Have you tried lengthening your stirrups to get a more “balanced seat” feel vs. “forward seat” feel?
I’ve worked with the people here - www.ridingwarehouse.com - on saddle pads and they’re very helpful. You might want to contact them about a Ricotti pad and see if you can get one - I think they have a good return policy, but it might differ depending on the product. It could be worth trying!
Sadly, no, I don’t have that excuse Previous riding was dressage and before that some low level eventing. I rode in a Wintec AP for awhile.
I’m never quite sure in this saddle if it is just me needing to sit up straight, or if that is just where I feel balanced? I don’t /feel/ that tipped forward when I ride, but watching that video clip last night, EEK! It takes a lot more thought and effort to post in that saddle with my shoulders back
I’ve been playing with shims and rigging this past week, and have settled back with just the front done up with my 3/4" 5star pad and no shims.
Saddles can be so frustrating sometimes!
Never mind.
Re the link right above…yikes. A saddle making DVD series I’m referencing to build mine flat out says that about the worst seat you can make is done by making a flat slope from cantle to top of fork.
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