I’ve always wondered if the little furry dogs have an easier time winning because there is so much less of them to judge. I imagine the bigger the dog gets, the easier it is to find flaws, or the larger the flaws might appear. Hell, you can’t even SEE the legs or feet or chest or haunches on that little Peke! It’s all just hair and face…
[QUOTE=Bacardi1;6145219]
If I were the Dobie owner, I’d sure like to know what put my dog out of first place.
Not to slam the judge - but just to know what the judge thought were the shortcomings. Otherwise, how will breeders know what’s what.[/QUOTE]
None of these dogs have shortcomings. Honestly, I think you’d be crazy to want to judge BIS at Westminster. In the end it comes down to how closely the dog matches the breed standard (in the judge’s interpretation). I know that they should not use a dog’s show record to judge it…but knowing that it was considered the BEST over 100 times sure helps a judge make a decision if they otherwise think all of the dogs are pretty darn perfect. 
I am told that the Peke is an extremely excellent example of the breed, one that even other Peke breeders get behind. Pekes are head breeds, and Malachy evidently has a gorgeous head. He is also very showy.
The whole line up was stunning. The Peke certainly isn’t my thing, but he’s a great example even if he mostly resembles a mop. I had to admit though that he had a bright and cheerful little face and was quite showy. The amount of hair on that dog was amazing.
[QUOTE=Simkie;6145270]
you can’t even SEE the legs or feet or chest or haunches on that little Peke! It’s all just hair and face…[/QUOTE]
And when the handler set him down on the floor he vibrated! :lol::lol:
[QUOTE=Simkie;6145270]
I’ve always wondered if the little furry dogs have an easier time winning because there is so much less of them to judge. I imagine the bigger the dog gets, the easier it is to find flaws, or the larger the flaws might appear. Hell, you can’t even SEE the legs or feet or chest or haunches on that little Peke! It’s all just hair and face…[/QUOTE]
Coated breeds seem a different ballgame than super shorthaired breeds like Dobes, Danes, Boxers, Whippets, etc. Good groomers can cover up some structural faults; that’s why judges runs their hands all over the dog. Still, when you hear about all the tricks handlers use :eek:. You can disguise a roached back in say a Bichon, but there’s not much you can do for the same in a Boxer.
I don’t think size has anything to do with it, but coat might. The furrier the dog, the harder it may be to find flaws.
One of my OB instructors has Pekes. Judges ask her ‘Is he sitting?’ 
Could definitely balance a cup of wine on his back through most of his utility run. :lol:
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;6145959]
Coated breeds seem a different ballgame than super shorthaired breeds like Dobes, Danes, Boxers, Whippets, etc. Good groomers can cover up some structural faults; that’s why judges runs their hands all over the dog. Still, when you hear about all the tricks handlers use :eek:. You can disguise a roached back in say a Bichon, but there’s not much you can do for the same in a Boxer.[/QUOTE]
In the brittany breed competition I saw a handler “rough up” the middle of the back of one dog before her down and back. It looked sort of like a friendly “come on buddy, show your stuff” ruffle, but it was in an odd spot. (I personally would never mess up my dog’s topline “by accident”…I might smooth the hair DOWN, but I’d never accidentally ruff it up.) I want to watch it again, because I wonder if it was just a little trick to hide a broken topline. (Which is not an uncommon fault). Obviously, it might not fool a judge during the examination, but if it’s very minor it might only really be noticeable when the dog is moving.
But, that’s what a good handler should do…attempt to minimize any faults and accentuate the dog’s good points. I also saw quite a few brittany handlers push their dog’s ears forward during the examination, giving their dog an attentive look. I don’t think I’d be coordinated enough to do that without being overly obvious and probably making my dog look ridiculous! 
(Haha, visualizing ears like a Briard)…
[QUOTE=S1969;6145985]
I also saw quite a few brittany handlers push their dog’s ears forward during the examination, giving their dog an attentive look. I don’t think I’d be coordinated enough to do that without being overly obvious and probably making my dog look ridiculous! (Haha, visualizing ears like a Briard)…[/QUOTE]
Tons of handlers do that in many breeds. I think it’s very common and completely accepted. Bait and toys fly around a lot of lower level rings to get that ears up, alert expression.
My Pap’s breeder takes a wrapped candy or mint into the ring. She crinkles the wrapper to get ears up. Just like horses! There are usually bowls of hard candy or mints on the steward’s table.
Have you heard about the stinky breath thing? Allegedly when people get nervous their mouth chemistry changes, altering their breath. Dogs smell the change and get nervous too. Hence the bowl of mints.
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;6146011]
Tons of handlers do that in many breeds. I think it’s very common and completely accepted. Bait and toys fly around a lot of lower level rings to get that ears up, alert expression.
My Pap’s breeder takes a wrapped candy or mint into the ring. She crinkles the wrapper to get ears up. Just like horses! There are usually bowls of hard candy or mints on the steward’s table.
Have you heard about the stinky breath thing? Allegedly when people get nervous their mouth chemistry changes, altering their breath. Dogs smell the change and get nervous too. Hence the bowl of mints.[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen it done in other breeds but never noticed it in Brittanys during the judge’s examination. Probably because most of my showing has been in the classes and our breed has lots of owner handlers…we just try not to interfere with our dogs. :lol:
But showing as a special is a new thing for me; I’ve only entered him 3 times (one was a move up so it hardly even counts ). I will have to become a better handler to be able to compete against the pros. Hopefully my dog can manage his ears by himself…I’m usually just trying to stay out of the judge’s way! He has nice ears during his free stack so I don’t really have to do much - he’s very food motivated!
And yes - I’ve heard of the breath thing and we put out mints at our specialty also. Although I hold my bait in my mouth (gross) so I guess I just mask the smell of my nervous breath with liver treats. :dead:
[QUOTE=Simkie;6140733]
Didn’t PBGV’s used to be a lot less … scissored? I swear I remember them from their first year in AKC and they were one of the “don’t touch the coat with clippers or scissors” breeds?[/QUOTE]
My mother showed PBGVs for years (yes, even at Westminster). She is no longer involved in the breed and is not happy with the direction that it has taken. The dogs are much more “manicured” now. Such a shame for a breed that is supposed to be a scrappy little feisty hound. They weren’t meant to be pampered and primped. Very disappointing.
BTW-I saw the same thing with the Jack Russell (pardon me- PARSON Russell). Looked like a broken coat that they trimmed up and fluffed. 
Yes the mint thing is very important for a nervous handler. . . um me! I was showing my Gordon bitch and I always had a bunch of altoids in my pocket just for that reason.
Unfortunately while showing I grabbed a liver treat from my pocket (same size and shape) and crunched it into my mouth. AHHHHH gross! Now I always keep the ‘toids’ in my other pocket. I almost barfed in the ring!! Those things are just nasty! I have never been able to hold bait in my mouth like so many handlers do. I tried it with chicken once and ended up eating it! I’m pitiful, and that is why I have a pro handling my dogs now.
As for grooming to hide faults, I had a bitch that was a tad light boned in the feet. So you leave a tad extra hair on the foot to give the illusion of better bone! Tons of tricks, but the judges that are good will uncover a fault no matter what.
[QUOTE=Just My Style;6146056]
BTW-I saw the same thing with the Jack Russell (pardon me- PARSON Russell). Looked like a broken coat that they trimmed up and fluffed. :([/QUOTE]
Does anyone besides me remember years ago when there was no such thing as a “Jack Russell”; it was just the “Parson Russell Terrier”, & they were such lovely dogs? In fact, somewhere here in my library of a house, I have a copy of an old newspaper clip where someone was looking for a dog with particular attributes, & the columnist suggested “trying to find” a “Parson’s Terrier”, which was (at that time) rare in the U.S. Said it was a very durable & personable little dog, very suitable for families with children, & was worth searching out.
Sigh - those were the days. As cute as they look, you couldn’t pay me to buy/adopt a “Jack Russell” today. That’s just my opinion/preference all you JR fans - no need to go postal, please.
[QUOTE=Bacardi1;6146453]
Does anyone besides me remember years ago when there was no such thing as a “Jack Russell”; it was just the “Parson Russell Terrier”, & they were such lovely dogs? In fact, somewhere here in my library of a house, I have a copy of an old newspaper clip where someone was looking for a dog with particular attributes, & the columnist suggested “trying to find” a “Parson’s Terrier”, which was (at that time) rare in the U.S. Said it was a very durable & personable little dog, very suitable for families with children, & was worth searching out.
Sigh - those were the days. As cute as they look, you couldn’t pay me to buy/adopt a “Jack Russell” today. That’s just my opinion/preference all you JR fans - no need to go postal, please. ;)[/QUOTE]
I don’t know, ‘back when’ for me was twenty years ago and I only had ever heard of Jack Russels. And the one at the barn lived up to both “Jack Russel Terrorist” AND “they’re football-shaped for a reason!” The ‘cute little dog’ was EVIL, while the harlequin Dane was operating under the misaprehension he was a cuddly little lapdog. (I loved him, but wow, you’ve never been sat on 'til you’ve been sat on by a GD!)
Our 4-H H&PB chairman had an Irish Wolfhound he’d bring to Fair. WONDERFUL dog, though he liked to sit next to you (with his head at shoulder height) and leeeeeeeeean on you, and seem genuinely puzzled why you were crumpling under the load. I guess tiny dogs think they are GIANT DIREWOLVES OF THE ICE AGE RAWR FEAR THEM and big dogs are convinced I ARE TINY PUPPY.
I’m talking late 60’s/early 70’s. Back then, “the” popular horsey dogs were German Shepherds, Dobermans, & Boxers - at least in my neck of the woods (Long Island, NY).
[QUOTE=Bacardi1;6146636]
I’m talking late 60’s/early 70’s. Back then, “the” popular horsey dogs were German Shepherds, Dobermans, & Boxers - at least in my neck of the woods (Long Island, NY).[/QUOTE]
Just like in any of the breeds that have been so distorted or poorly bred, it all is in who is promoting them, Hollywood addictions cause many of the outstanding issues. The first that I saw in Virginia 20 years ago were the “cast offs” that went to the horse community in Middleburg who had the means to travel to England, saw them and just had to have one. They were the nastiest tempered dogs I had ever seen, even a small puppy tried to bite my nose off! There were also many who had the disgusting history of killing one of their own in a pack! I only ever knew them as “Jack” Russells, the name does not really matter, just who bought them and promoted them.
Now that I have one who is an excellent dog for his purpose and very entertaining and cute, (also a super sized PITA at times), have I had a change of heart. You have to be very careful in the parentage and I have a good one plus I was stubborn and fast enough at the time to train him and it took a long time to get him to stop when he was on a charge against or about something. He is an excellent ratter and predator hunter supreme. Now that he has no real job since I am not out in any barn on a regular basis, he is a bit more of a PITA and part of that is that he is a monster to other dogs and will cause a fight if he can. Unless I have a job with horses again or my own farm, I will not ever own another one I do not think.
JRTs
[QUOTE=Bacardi1;6146636]
I’m talking late 60’s/early 70’s. Back then, “the” popular horsey dogs were German Shepherds, Dobermans, & Boxers - at least in my neck of the woods (Long Island, NY).[/QUOTE]
Just like in any of the breeds that have been so distorted or poorly bred, many of the first that I saw in Virginia were the “cast offs” that went to the horse community in Middleburg who had the means to travel to England, saw them and just had to have one. They were the nastiest tempered dogs I had ever seen, even a small puppy tried to bite my nose off! There were also many who had the disgusting history of killing one of their own in a pack! I only ever knew them as “Jack” Russells, the name does not really matter, just who bought them and promoted them.
Now that I have one who is an excellent dog for his purpose and very entertaining and cute, (also a super sized PITA at times), have I had a change of heart. You have to be very careful in the parentage and I have a good one plus I was stubborn and fast enough at the time to train him and it took a long time to get him to stop when he was on a charge against or about something. He is an excellent ratter and predator hunter supreme. Now that he has no real job since I am not out in any barn on a regular basis, he is a bit more of a PITA and part of that is that he is a monster to other dogs and will cause a fight if he can. Unless I have a job with horses again or my own farm, I will not ever own another one I do not think.
I wonder how many breeders think their dogs as so much better than what other breeders have, how many think their dogs years ago were better than what others are breeding today?:lol:
I would say, there is some to that, in some ways, some was better, in others, maybe not quite so.
I have never felt comfortable with dwarf type dogs, cute and sweet as they are as pets.
I have friends with very, very nice corgis, bassets and other such, but the short haired dachshund in Westminster the other night, honestly, his front legs were non-existent and his belly was dragging the ground at times.:eek:
I am not sure extremes like that are good.:no:
[QUOTE=Bluey;6147109]
I wonder how many breeders think their dogs as so much better than what other breeders have, how many think their dogs years ago were better than what others are breeding today?:lol:
:[/QUOTE]
For me, the poster child for that comment is definitively above & beyond, the German Shepherd.
What the hell were/are breeders thinking when they turned a lovely well-conformed working dog into a slanty-backed dragging-itself-on-its-hocks cripple. Really - I’d LOVE to hear from a German Shepherd breeder trying to sound sane while defending what they’ve done to this valiant breed. It should be criminally against the law.
I still clearly remember the purebred German Shepherd my great aunt & uncle had decades ago. What a dog - gorgeous, friendly, loyal, & if you wanted you could stand a marble on its back without it rolling off into the street @ 60 mph. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Bacardi1;6147168]
For me, the poster child for that comment is definitively above & beyond, the German Shepherd.
What the hell were/are breeders thinking when they turned a lovely well-conformed working dog into a slanty-backed dragging-itself-on-its-hocks cripple. Really - I’d LOVE to hear from a German Shepherd breeder trying to sound sane while defending what they’ve done to this valiant breed. It should be criminally against the law.
I still clearly remember the purebred German Shepherd my great aunt & uncle had decades ago. What a dog - gorgeous, friendly, loyal, & if you wanted you could stand a marble on its back without it rolling off into the street @ 60 mph. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]
It’s been posted before but you can hear some excuses, ‘defenses’, and other hoo-ha here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhXHFOrBbEc
[QUOTE=Bacardi1;6146453]
Does anyone besides me remember years ago when there was no such thing as a “Jack Russell”; it was just the “Parson Russell Terrier”, & they were such lovely dogs? In fact, somewhere here in my library of a house, I have a copy of an old newspaper clip where someone was looking for a dog with particular attributes, & the columnist suggested “trying to find” a “Parson’s Terrier”, which was (at that time) rare in the U.S. Said it was a very durable & personable little dog, very suitable for families with children, & was worth searching out.
Sigh - those were the days. As cute as they look, you couldn’t pay me to buy/adopt a “Jack Russell” today. That’s just my opinion/preference all you JR fans - no need to go postal, please. ;)[/QUOTE]
So how new is the “Jack Russell”? I had one whose recent ancestors were imported from England.
