What is the tradition with your hunt regarding female masters who are not staff members? Do they wear scarlet?
Only staff wear scarlet in our hunt. Men with colors do not wear scarlet unless they are staffing. Our hunt has two masters and we are both women. We wear whatever we want because we are the masters. I choose not to wear scarlet at all.
I’ve been at hunts where female Masters wear scarlet, and hunts where they don’t. More often, in my experience, female MFHs wear scarlet if they are also hunting hounds or whipping in or serving as field master.
When I whipped in, I was required to obtain a scarlet coat because the MFH wanted all staff in scarlet, regardless of gender.
The late Jill Summers comes to mind as a long-time MFH who never wore scarlet. She did sometimes take the field and sometimes take her own line or whip in. But, as noted, it’s entirely up to the master of each hunt. I’ve also hunted where nobody wore scarlet, hunt livery was a dark green coat.
[QUOTE=MapleMeadows;4726708]
Only staff wear scarlet in our hunt. Men with colors do not wear scarlet unless they are staffing. Our hunt has two masters and we are both women. We wear whatever we want because we are the masters. I choose not to wear scarlet at all.[/QUOTE]
I whip in at two hunts.
At one hunt only staff wears scarlet. Ever. If you are a guest and entitled to wear scarlet at your home hunt, or obviously a guest master or huntsman you may wear scarlet with us.
At the other hunt, men only. We have 2 lady masters, one wears black and the other wears scarlet because sometimes she also hunts the hounds, and of course the male master and usual huntsman wear scarlet, as do men with colors. Ladies wear black. Guests, same as at first hunt.
I do like wearing the scarlet for safety reasons whipping in because one is often off in the underbrush alone and it is much harder to be mistaken for a deer in a big scarlet coat. Plus it would be easier for them to find my carcass from the air should I be unhorsed. It is also easier to see the other whips against tree lines etc if one is a position to do so.
But really, I don’t care either way. That decision is above my pay grade, I do what I’m told.
A lady? In Scarlet??? Quelle horreur.:lol:
Seriously, no matter what the tradition I’m glad that in my hunt, staff wear scarlet.
We’re exempted from state law that requires all sportsmen to wear blaze orange.
A field of riders is highly visible (and audible). Especially on a run.
But a lone whip, picking his way through the brush or woods looking for a stray hound or a good crossing point, dressed in winter/fall colors with a flash of white - it’s just smart to stand out from the background. Scarlet is their blaze orange. (or whatever color they’ve chosen as their livery)
Our season coincides with the seasons for other sportsmen - and when you’re in the woods during hunting season, on private or public land - wearing a bright color is a good safety precaution.
For hikers, foxhunters, trail riders, birdwatchers, or anyone else.
So for me, at least in my state, I think tradition can take second place to safety.
Just like wearing an ASTM helmet rather than the derby or top hat the field is supposed to be wearing.
Duh - I stoopid I jus red ur kwestshun agin. Female Masters who do not ever hunt the hounds or whip in? Meh. She may just want everyone to match for all I know.
Our hunt has two female masters. One of which whips in. We also have one other female whip.
None of them wear scarlet.
Actually, I think even these days it is still considered to be poor manners if a master shows up at another hunt wearing scarlet, unless it is a joint meet. They ought to know, having attained a mastership, that they should hunt in black elsewhere. So- while your hunt may allow it, it’s still ‘poor form’ from the Big Picture of tradition.
The very practical reason for not wearing scarlet when hunting away is you can confuse the heck out of field members and hunt staff alike if all they see is a sea of red coats.
Yeah, except for that first year in the 80s when they passed the law and there was no exemption. Do you know how stupid blaze orange over scarlet looks? I did get gently busted once by the game warden to pull my vest out of my pocket and put it on, but he was smiling at the time. Though I will say that the vest came in very handy as an instant paneling device for wire fences.
[QUOTE=Beverley;4727857]
Actually, I think even these days it is still considered to be poor manners if a master shows up at another hunt wearing scarlet, unless it is a joint meet. They ought to know, having attained a mastership, that they should hunt in black elsewhere. So- while your hunt may allow it, it’s still ‘poor form’ from the Big Picture of tradition.
The very practical reason for not wearing scarlet when hunting away is you can confuse the heck out of field members and hunt staff alike if all they see is a sea of red coats.[/QUOTE]
I believe it says in our hunt’s fixture etc that visiting masters and others entitled to do so at their home hunt may wear their scarlet and so on. I’m sure they do check with our master first before doing so, as is expected.
As I said, I’m just a whip and that is all beyond my pay grade. Not for me to question what a visiting master or other guest does at our hunt. Also not for me to question or criticize what our master does and doesn’t allow.
My job is with the hounds anyway so there could be mass suicide in the fields and I wouldn’t know til I got to the breakfast anyway.
The OP asked what we think and how we do it and I told her.
As JSwan said, I really like the staff wearing scarlet thing. It makes it much easier at big joint meets to know who is who and who your field master is.
Hey, mass suicide in the fields BEFORE breakfast? WooHoo, there actually might be some food left for the whips!
WW, I heard that!
At our hunt, the rule at the breakfast is staff eats first, which is nice. Of course if we have to go look for hounds we tell them to go ahead but usually we are pretty lucky that way and get to head in.
I wasn’t hunting back then but I do remember when that happened. And I remember lots of grumbling. :lol:
LOL, isn’t that the general idea behind Scarlet?
You know, I really don’t know why the first foxhunter who wore a scarlet coat did so, but that is a good question. Somehow I doubt that in those days they searched for people from the air since there weren’t helicopters or airplanes then.
But I’m sure someone here knows why the first scarlet coat came to be.
As I have been declared an outlaw, I don’t have the latest MFHA handbook, but the last I have makes it very plain and in a direct statement that the master of each hunt shall decide what members and staff shall wear. Period.
I started hunting in 1941 and women have worn scarlet in those clubs where it was so ordained since before I started.
Notables…Ginny Moss, Mrs. Hannum and over the years hundreds of others as well.
So what is the reason for the question to begin with?
Perhaps too much time on your hands?
Also, the handbook states in direct language that no master or staff member will wear scarlet when hunting with another club unless invited to do so.
And finally, since most fields will have two or three women for every man, since many clubs not only have women masters, but female staff members as well, why would anyone ask what color coat they should wear?
Women are the backbone of all horse sports and hunting as well and should be given the privilege of wearing what they please.
CSSJR
[QUOTE=Petalstorm;4726657]
What is the tradition with your hunt regarding female masters who are not staff members? Do they wear scarlet?[/QUOTE]
I just noticed the “masters who are not staff members” part.
The hunts I am with have “working masters”,so although we show them their due and the proper respect as Masters they are considered staff also.
Do other hunts not consider their Masters staff?
Masters probably work harder and have to put up with more c$%^ than anyone, even if they aren’t “working masters”, ie landowner relations, member relations, kennel heartaches, etc. Being a Master is truly a labor of love.
No criticism expressed or implied. We agree, each Master can decree whatever they want. I was just pointing out the ‘tradition’ on the point you raised in case anyone wanted to know, just a little sidebar to the original question…
oh I know. But as we know other folks are on the net too and I just want to make sure it’s clear that I am not criticizing or speaking disparagingly about about anything or anything or the way they have chosen to run their hunt(s),nor anyone else who has chosen more traditional attire for their hunt.
this is a general discussion only.
But seriously, if one of my masters decreed all of us to wear a lime green coat and orange breeches, I would and do it with a smile. Their hunt, their rules, as cssutton said so well.
No. Masters are masters. They are In Charge. Sometimes they also hunt hounds or whip in, sometimes they take the field, sometimes, if they want to, they just take their own line. Staff are huntsman and whippers-in, whether professional or honorary. A Master whipping-in is still a Master, and a huntsman keeps that in mind.
Personally I’ve very much enjoyed it the couple or three times I have shown up in ‘street clothes,’, say, jeans and a parka on a cold day, and the Master has decreed that I simply ‘must’ hunt as there is a spare horse. Mind you on the really cold day that comes to mind everyone else was really looking daggers at me in my nice warm parka!
