What are typical lease terms for 3rd level off-breed horse?

[lazaret]

There was an owner/trainer in between. He came back from the lease stopping and headshy, was sent to a trainer on a smaller circuit to see if they could fix him. I bought him from the second trainer.

They firesold him to me as they were leaving for WEF and didn’t want the dead weight, pretty much.

His feet were a disaster including what looked like a quarter crack that had probably formed right around when he started stopping, so it could have been a pain/bad feet issue also. It took three months to fix his feet. He will jump now but I bought him to be a dressage horse so he only jumps for fun.

You would be amazed by the bad horsemanship that abounds, but probably not surprised.

[MapleBreeze]

Thats why most paid leases and even trials require them to carry insurance too so if that injury emergency pops up its covered by their policy.

Even trials have insurance.
Most leases specificy how much work load or how high jumped x days per week the horse can be worked too.

Also, the one time i let a horse go on a trial she came back and bucked like a bronco 3/4 the way around the arena and tossed me like a rag doll. I think the woman put her in super high tight klassical side reins and it jacked up her back and i didnt know. Anyways, i dont do trials anymore because then i had to sell a horse that was sore and bucking and lost considerable time waiting for her to feel better and get back to normal before i could list again.

[meupatdoes]

@Equisis

People also tend to misrepresent their abilities. Anytime you’re not in full control of the situation, there is risk.

Lol, TEND to?

The number of clinics we have all been do where we watch the clinician ask “so what are you working on?” and then we watch the rider say " we’ve been schooling third and are working on lead changes!" and then we watch the clinician say “ok trot a 20m circle” …and then we watch them not even do that in a first level connection.

This happens every single clinic, why would lease horses be exempt?

[Jealoushe]

@meupatdoes

Lol, TEND to?

The number of clinics we have all been do where we watch the clinician ask “so what are you working on?” and then we watch the rider say " we’ve been schooling third and are working on lead changes!" and then we watch the clinician say “ok trot a 20m circle” …and then we watch them not even do that in a first level connection.

This happens every single clinic, why would lease horses be exempt?

Why DOES this happen. It’s so bizarre to me! I knew this girl who bought a schoolmaster event horse, but she never really rode it or took any lessons once she got him. She brought him to a clinic and the clinician asks about him and how he is. The rider proceeds to tell clinician shes schooling 2nd level, she just sits “like this” and he pops into a shoulder in and how lovely he is.

Then the ride starts and horses head is straight out from his neck like a 2x4, cant even bend in the corner, forget soften to the bridle. Clinician just has this look on their face lol.

These people need to realize that people can tell when you are lying. Educated riders and coaches can tell that horse isn’t doing 2nd level, at least not with you. They can tell you have never had the horse soften to the bridle or be supple ever. You look like an idiot AND a liar.

I don’t get it!

[MsM]

Sometimes riders think that because they bought a second level horse, they are now automatically riding second level. They really dont know that they do not even have acceptance of the bit!

I got a new instructor last year. Ofcourse she asked about our level and I explained honestly. When she came for the first lesson she expressed surprise that we could actually work at that level. She said that most of the time she goes to a new “second level client” they are barely training level (But they can go sideways so they figure they are more advanced! )

[lazaret]

This might be me right now - though in fairness, the horse does have beautiful easy clean changes it’s the going sideways in the connection he’s still figuring out…

[Mander]

@Jealoushe

Why DOES this happen. It’s so bizarre to me!

Honestly I think it’s just insecurity, and maybe in some cases a desire to get their “money’s worth”.

No one wants to pay a few hundred dollars to go to a clinic to work on 20m circles (even if that’s what they really should be working on!). They think “oh I can work on that on my own”, even though they clearly don’t, and instead want to work on the things they’re less sure of doing on their own.

I used to wrangle at a dude ranch and on the little questionnaire we gave people on their first day, nearly everyone marks themselves as “total beginner” or “advanced/expert” rider. And we always put both on “beginner” horses because if you asked, every single one of the “expert” riders would admit that the reason for marking themselves as such was because they had gone on 10 whole trail rides and “run” (not trotted, loped or galloped - run) a horse before. It was such a perfect representation of the Dunning Kruger effect, it became a running joke for us. Interestingly, the people who wrote down “intermediate” were usually the actual “horse-people” who were probably riding several times/week back home.

In any case, I usually refrain from commenting on my own riding as much as possible for exactly the reasons you point out. The trainer/clinician is going to SEE that you’ve oversold yourself I’ve probably said this before, but I find it’s always better to follow the Tyrion Lannister approach that “anyone who must say ‘I am the king’ is no true king”. If you’re amazing, people will notice - and if you’re not… well, at least you can spare yourself some embarrassment and a few snickers at the rail.

[Jealoushe]

Good points! I think in this case it might actually be delusion of the skill level, not understanding how uneducated they are. It was such a weird brag too because it was a jumping clinic. But again, the eventer can tell when your horse can’ty bend on a 20m circle lol

I live in fear of being put in a group too high for my level. One time I signed up for the smallest level and they put me in with the Training level eventers. Luckily, the horse I was going to take coudn’t go and I happened to get a new horse who was doing Training level, but I had no idea they would put me in that level. I would have died on my other horse lol

I like to leave expectations for the clinician pretty low to start haha

[atr]

People don’t know what they don’t know.

They think they are fulfilling the directives of the level, andt they honestly don’t know that they are not.

Could be they have no regular dressage trainer to set them atraight, or their regular trainer is worthless/ineffective/add adjective here.

At least they’ve come to the clinic… one hopes they go home with a better set of tools and understanding of where they are.

[meupatdoes]

@Jealoushe

Good points! I think in this case it might actually be delusion of the skill level, not understanding how uneducated they are. It was such a weird brag too because it was a jumping clinic. But again, the eventer can tell when your horse can’ty bend on a 20m circle lol

I think people truly don’t know what they don’t know.

My current horse arrived in my life with some pretty remedial contact issues that were a challenge to address, and I’d much rather walk into a clinic saying, “Yo, I can’t ride one side of this, HALP” than trying to fool an O judge that I actually have a half halt.

[atr]

Yup, that’s what I’m doing this weekend

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I usually tell any instructor or clinician right off the bat that I’m not a very good rider. I’m a very enthusiastic rider! I love riding! Just not very good! And it’s the truth.

While I do agree some people just flat-out lie, I’ve seen people ride and, in my humble opinion, thought things were a complete disaster, and spoken with them afterwards (being very polite, and praising the good moments, of course) and they spout out a long description of all the wonderful things they thought were going on during the ride that just…didn’t happen. I think that’s unfortunately part of the problem with a very subjective discipline. Especially at lower levels when things are never going to be 100% perfect.

[Jealoushe]

Good point! I also forget that a lot of people aren’t students of the sport, and wanting to learn the sport and are more interested in posting on social media and jumping big jumps or trying to go up the levels quick etc. Putting on the facade so to speak lol

[Synthesis]

@Jealoushe

Good point! I also forget that a lot of people aren’t students of the sport, and wanting to learn the sport and are more interested in posting on social media and jumping big jumps or trying to go up the levels quick etc. Putting on the facade so to speak lol

I actually feel a little badly for them now. There’s so little time to enjoy those parts compared to loving the sport and the process. I don’t mean that its easy but there can be so much joy day to day through the work.

Maintaining the facade is hard too! They have to constantly hide the reality.