I am skeptical of those that blame the horse first whenever something goes wrong.
For example, “Skewball picked the long distance and completely unseated me.”
As well, if I first meet a barn manager and within an hour I’ve already heard 4 stories about horrible ex-clients. That gets me worried.
What are your red flags for horse people?
Those things you mentioned.
Anyone who is a level ABC parelli something.
If I hear within a few minutes about it being a “rescue.” Or really any overly dramatic tale of woe.
Ha! Those who have been riding for a very short while and have read a book or two, and are suddenly the expert on everything from round penning to half passes. They can sit in the stands and criticise every round.
I had to laugh about that one as I just checked out the facebook page for our new (not yet moved in, and I have not met yet) neighbor, saw her with a horse and a carrot stick and went uht-oh.
Dunning Kruger effect!
Red flags in horse people are probably the same red flags in any/all people.
Lack of contracts, boundaries, and professionalism, from industry pros. Unclear communication, difficult to talk to, disorganized billing system.
Leaning on emotional aspect/codependency to keep clients. Overly pushy about buying/selling you a horse. Too much mixing of friendship with business.
Lack of respect/understanding/kindness (or even just time) for the horse when things go wrong. Or for barn staff/grooms/“underlings”, for that matter, including underpaying (and/or under-training) them and expecting them to work their heart out.
Too much anthropomorphizing of horses.
Not admitting to being over-mounted/inexperienced and seeking appropriate help, probably best served by in-person-with-the-horse training. Though I guess that’s related to D-K effect.
Too much talking, not enough riding. Kind of half-serious, but don’t tell me you’re a great rider, get on the horse and let your riding do the talking.
Anything along the lines of “my horse missed the lead change” or “my horse can’t do [whatever it is]”. Well, maybe they have a physical limitation, but it’s always simpler to fix (and learn to ride/improve) if it’s rider error. “My horse is rushing/pulling to jumps because he loves jumping.” Or he’s off-balance.
Lots of good points here.
But there’s seeing red flags and then there’s deciding what to do about them.
You might be very happy to board somewhere, but not want to take lessons from the BO. Or you might be happy to take lessons somewhere you wouldn’t board.
And for ammies, you might really like and trust someone as a person and friend but realize they are not that serious about becoming better rider, whatever they say. Or that they have gaps in their self awareness. Or a bee in their bonnet about some product or method.
Anyhow if you are clear about the path you are on, it’s possible to recognize other people’s limitations and still work with them.
I would draw the line at actual dishonesty, cruelty to horses, and manipulative dealings with people.
People often ask me to care for their horses in one way or another. Here’s how I weed out the crazies…
Folks who refer to trace clips as ‘poodle clips’ after they tell me every detail imaginable about their horse except if it’s been body clipped before, and if so, did it behave itself.
Folks who are more interested in telling me their show record and who’ve they trained with, and how expensive their tack is, and (not) causally tell me how much their annual show budget is-- when all I’m asking is what chores need done and at exactly what time.
Folks who cannot understand the concept of telling time. When I ask, five times, “When you do usually feed?” I don’t want “Oh, sometime right after the kids catch the bus”, or “when my husband has left for the train” or “right when I wake up and have coffee”. It’s mind boggling how many folks cannot understand that I am not familiar with their routine, I do not commute or have children, and fortheloveofallthingsholy when I’m asking you what time you feed, I’M ASKING YOU WHAT NUMBER SHOWS UP ON YOUR DIGITAL PHONE YOU DIMWITTED KNOB-BRAIN. Oh, and YOU NEED TO STOP BREEDING!!
I am highly suspicious of people who harp on “natural horsemanship” or “natural hoof trimming”.
People who are 100% against all western medicine.
People who are 100% against all other holistic modalities.
People who muscle frightened horses.
People who are more concerned with the cleanliness of their barn vs the healthy appearance & cleanliness of their horses.
People who are painfully unaware of exactly how much they DO NOT know, yet want to tell you and expect you to listen for literally hours, and act enthralled.
Oh, and last but not least, folks who have the word “Knackers” with a phone number scribbled on their wall in permanent marker…
Seemingly nice people who have nothing nice to say about others, but phrase it in such a way that it doesn’t “sound” critical (at least not at first glance). Who think they are the only ones with a methodology that works - regardless of experience level.
Put up or shut up, and get a life.
And it makes me wonder what you say about me behind my back, no matter how nicely you phrase it.
New horse owners who know everything, and don’t hesitate to let you know. And tell you that you are doing it wrong.
Yes! I joke about my horse sometimes (as do my friends) about them having human emotion. but I’m just kidding around, they are horses, not fur people. There are people who take it to the next level and truly believe it.
I work at my barn on weekends to pay off some board (I have been there for 13+ years) and when a brand new boarder followed me around at my heels questioning me on what I was doing (I was feeding the horses and then turning them out that’s it) and why with the disclaimer “I’m just trying to learn how things are done around here …” I knew she was a doozy. And she is.
This is my warning flag, too.
Two of my girls came directly to me off the track (years ago). Another new horse mom and her daughters just brought in a new OTTB gelding (which they “rescued”, even though they purchased him from a perfectly good home) and we were comparing bloodlines and racing history. I told them which tracks the girls had been based out of, and mom’s response was “Oh, you’re so kind to rescue these horses!”
Even though I explained that while I was given both girls for free by their owners/trainers, they were in no danger of needing rescue.Those horses were treated like queens while at the track. Either one would have had sporthorse folks lining up to take them if I hadn’t, and both had farms to go to at the end of the season if necessary. Mom was adamant, though. Any horse that came from the track (no matter how long ago) was a rescue.Oi.
the ones who start giving out a lot of free advice. they are the ones who know NOTHING.
For me it is when people with a modicum of horse knowledge try to parlay that into knowing EVERYTHING.
As long as it is Talk only, fine. But when they endanger the horses or themselves I start to back away (after trying to offer suggestions in a non-threatening “You might want to…” way).
Prime example is a friend who taught her ShetlandX to drive - from a book - & does not realize at least 50% or more of his teachability was due to his nature.
She then “trained” 2 more of her horses to drive & neither one is more than greenbroke IMHO < both will rear in harness.
Forging ahead, she acquired another Shetlandish pony as a match for hers since she wants to drive a team & a 12yo mini used as a breeding stud & conformation/halter/show horse for his entire life.
At least new pony was roughbroke to drive (came from an Amish auction), mini is clueless.
New pony has:
*run off with her in the cart when she took him to a local show after having him for maybe 3mos
*somehow drove as a team w/o incident on a trail drive (with me as passenger)… then ran away while hitched with the Saintly pony at another local show.
*ran away with her - in her own outdoor arena - tossing her out of the cart, over a fence & ending in EMT call & visit to the ER.
When it was suggested she might want to send this pony for some formal training, she refused.
SHE is going to finish this pony. End.Of.Sentence.
Mini is still skittish when hooked and nohow safe to drive.
Which has not stopped her from dropping $3K on a custom-made harness for him.
Sometimes I wish I had her self-confidence.
But at the same time I worry it is going to get her seriously hurt & end in animals that cannot be honestly be presented as finished to be resold.
On that note: she also has a vastly inflated idea of her animals’ worth.
None have any sort of show record or special breeding - with the exception of one mare purpose-bred but nohow suited physically for that discipline.
ohhh this one came into play at WEG for me. We had an armchair critic sitting by us during the team show jumping final. She would not stop talking the entire time. From her chatting to her friends we determined she jumps maybe 2ftish in hunters just from what she was talking about from her lessons. Everything coming out of her mouth made no sense as to what was happening in the ring. A rider would go into a jump way too fast and out of control and she’d say they needed to put their leg on. She was clucking at the horses when the riders were trying to condense them in a tight line. Every single round kept saying they weren’t going to make time even though about half of them did make time. When Boyd had the rail down she screamed so loud that literally the entire 100ppl around her stared at her. When it went to the jump off we got up and moved to the opposite side of the stands. It was beyond rude and annoying.
Well, to be fair, not all racehorses have a soft landing post-racing career. Nowadays, as we all know, there are many organizations in place to retrain/rehome racehorses but many still end up in slaughter pens. What’s wrong with helping a rescue? Or can they just not say the word “rescue”? Agreed, the word “rescue” has gotten to be a bit overused but I’d rather have it that way than the other.
Red flags…I agree with many that have already been said: people who blame everything on the horse, muscling a scared horse, being closed minded to other ways of handling/riding horses.
My biggest one: anyone (kid or adult) who shows up to ride a pre-groomed/tacked horse and knows nothing of and wants nothing to do with horsemanship or horse care. Then hops off, hands the horse off, and goes on their merry way.
Dude. I got my dog at a shelter and I don’t consider her a rescue. She clearly had a fairly decent home because she is super happy and well socialized to people. In fact, she loves people. All the people, any people, EVERY people. She loves them. That doesn’t say neglected or abused to me. I have never seen an OTTB that I would describe as a rescue. Well, there was one that came from some kids camp somewhere 200 pounds underweight because they couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all horses in the herd were actually getting access to feed. But that wasn’t at the track.
I do consider my mom’s dogs rescues, and they came from the same shelter. One is so crazy she lives on the bed and only gets down to go outside. Has had anxiety triggered seizures (thanks super expensive specialist vet lol) due to environment changes. However happily lives on the bed with her toys stashed under pillows and demands I scratch her head really hard. It’s just been a long road with rigid routines to get her anxiety under control. Mom’s other dog ended up at a shelter because someone called animal control to pick up a random dead dog that appeared in their yard. Turned out he was still alive but couldn’t stand on his own. He is still a happy boy who likes people and other dogs. Amazing how resilient they can be.
My pet peeve is people who assume horse people they don’t know are idiots.
Me, stopping into old barn to visit: “Damn, where did all the tiny blankets come from?” (apparently there had been a storage cleanout and mass washing of pony blankets)
Random boarder: “Those are for ponies. Ponies need small blankets because they are smaller than horses.”
Also, people who worship a particular professional/brand/etc who can’t see the faults as well as the positives.
“Well, to be fair, not all racehorses have a soft landing post-racing career. Nowadays, as we all know, there are many organizations in place to retrain/rehome racehorses but many still end up in slaughter pens. What’s wrong with helping a rescue? Or can they just not say the word “rescue”? Agreed, the word “rescue” has gotten to be a bit overused but I’d rather have it that way than the other.”
Nothing is wrong with helping a rescue, and many racehorses do end up in bad situations. But certainly not all of them, or even a majority.
What I object to is the trend that classifies almost any acquisition of an animal as a “rescue”. Most horses (and other species) are not rescues just because one person acquired them from another person. That’s a sale, or an adoption, or a giveaway. In my example, according to my fellow boarder, any racehorse with a new home has been rescued. That’s absolutely untrue.
There’s a big payoff for people to claim they rescued an animal. People laud them for their kindness, and they get lots of attention in person and on social media. But it does a disservice to all the former owners/trainers who diligently cared for their charges and recognized that a new home would benefit that animal to imply that these animals were in need of rescue.
I have two big ones.
The first overlaps a bit into what others have said already - the people who talk big, present themselves as competent riders or horsemen who would hypothetically be just fine 95% of the time riding on their own, caring for their horse on their own (on their own property)… but on further acquaintance it’s clear they 1. Can’t really ride their way out of a paper sack and 2. Know much, much less about horse-keeping than they lead you to believe. It could be that they don’t know what constitutes a medical emergency (“my horse’s eye is bleeding, can I just put a cold pack on it?” NO.) or they don’t know enough to recognize what’s actually an issue vs what isn’t, or anything in between.
The second is people who have strange priorities that converge into dangerous territory. (I’m not talking about the weird eccentricities people have - we all have habits or preferences that are utterly harmless. I get that.) But there are people who have priorities that skip right into the realm of dangerous. They bought a horse from a feed lot and are furious they can’t bring it right home and stick it in herd turnout, for example (quarantine is an outrageous concept, obviously!), or the idea that they can’t just bring any fan from walmart to the barn (silly hysterical people, worrying about barn fires or electric issues - why spend all that money for an industrial grade/metal fully encased motor component??). Their convenience and preferences (and priorities) supersede everything else, regardless of the safety or wellbeing involved. Once I catch wind of this in people, I’m dust in the wind to them. I won’t deal with this behavior (because prior experiences have shown me they don’t care about why there’s quarantine, it’s not a case of “they just don’t know” - they just don’t care).
My biggest pet peeve, is people who blame the horse for a mishap when it is usually rider error. People who think they know everything in any discipline are annoying too. Edre had it right, people who are not grounded by reality when it comes to common sense issues like not burning the barn down or bringing sickness into a bar from an unquarantined animal. All of those people have one thing in common, an over-bloated sense of self that overrides their ability to be appropriate.
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