What are your thoughts on spurs and whips?

[Weezer]

Reading about these allegations of Andy Kocher using electric spurs brings up the question of spurs and whips in competition. I was taught that these tools were to be used only very occasionally to tune up a sluggish horse. I was taught that if a rider repeatedly needs these tools, then there is either a mismatch between the horse and rider, or the horse is not well suited to the task being asked of it. I understand that you can ride with spurs and whips and not use them, but do they really belong in the competition ring? And if so, is there really much difference between being jabbed in the side with a spur or being given a slight jolt? Both seem only momentarily unpleasant and equally unnecessary.

I have used spurs and whips at various points in training, so I’m not saying they are torture devices. If used properly, they are effective training aids. I just think that training aids should not be used during competition. But I am also not a high-level rider so there may be some considerations that I am missing. I’m interested in hearing what others think so I can reconsider my perspective.

[Snowdenfarm]

I would love to see them banned at competition. Not because there is anything inherently bad with them if used kindly. Rather because it seems in the spirit of dressage to show that the horse can perform the test willingingly without the “threat” of either.

[Redlei44]

They are tools, nothing more and nothing less. Like all tools they can be used properly or improperly. I would agree that having to use them constantly or in such a way that causes ongoing pain or injury indicates something is wrong (it’s against show rules for good reason). I would not agree that their existence, or the fact that a horse goes better when a rider carries them, indicates that something is wrong. In most cases, the fact that they can be “unpleasant” is what makes them “unnecessary” to actively apply. It would be pretty extreme to believe that a slightly sluggish horse that offers crisper lateral work (for example) is completely unsuited for its job or is being abusively ridden.

As with most horse (and life) things, it’s a matter of degrees.

[Bluey]

Spurs are used properly as an extension of the leg.
You don’t have to move the leg but minimally to signal to the horse.
Riders need an educate leg to use spurs properly.
A short rider uses spurs with short shanks, their legs are right there.
A tall rider uses spurs with long shanks, they have further to reach to signal the horse.
Spurs are way more subtle than leg iself can be, as leg cues.
In classes where you are showing a finely tuned horse, or a youngster where leg cues add to the communication, it distracts if the rider makes larger leg moves to cue horses, why spurs are a subtler way to cue.

As with any other tool, you can use it properly or abuse it.
There are rules in the proper and wrong use of spurs.
Judges and stewards at shows are trained in those, to prevent abuse and punish if any questionable use is observed.

Someone that thinks whips and spurs are only to abuse horses tend not to know how to use either properly.

[JB]

The point of spurs in upper level Dressage is for the tiniest aid without having to move the heel of that leg into the horse. There is nothing unkind about a light aid.

I dare anyone to find a Jumper or Eventer with a horse who might have the slightest inclination to be a bit balky at a scary jump, who says he won’t ride with a crop.

There’s nothing worse than needing a “training aid” in a competition ring and not having it. By that I mean, you’d be amazed at the horses who can learn that the show ring means there’s no whip or spur and just decides “eh, that oxer doesn’t need any speed to get over”. There’s nothing worse than having a horse galloping down to a Coffin on XC and deciding mayyyyybe today he doesn’t feel like that effort and puts his and his rider’s life at risk

Would you rather see a horse get 1 solid whack with a whip, or 10 solid whacks with heels on his sides? A strong enough rider could probably crack a rib or 2.

If someone’s going to go down the path of wanting spurs or whips banned, then you should also want to ban bits.

[Red_Barn]

I think banning them would be excessive, but I also think that relying on the constant use of whips and spurs is a sign of lousy training and/or wrong-headed riding, and should be penalized in competition.

Train in insensitivity, and you WILL need roughly-used tools. Train in attentiveness, and you’ll need them much less, and use them with a lot more finesse. I think everybody knows that, really, but somehow the basics always seem to get lost in the shuffle.

[lorilu]

@Snowdenfarm

I would love to see them banned at competition. Not because there is anything inherently bad with them if used kindly. Rather because it seems in the spirit of dressage to show that the horse can perform the test willingingly without the “threat” of either.

used correctly, they provide a refinement of the aids. they should never be used as a “threat”…

[merrygoround]

@JB

The point of spurs in upper level Dressage is for the tiniest aid without having to move the heel of that leg into the horse. There is nothing unkind about a light aid.

I dare anyone to find a Jumper or Eventer with a horse who might have the slightest inclination to be a bit balky at a scary jump, who says he won’t ride with a crop.

There’s nothing worse than needing a “training aid” in a competition ring and not having it. By that I mean, you’d be amazed at the horses who can learn that the show ring means there’s no whip or spur and just decides “eh, that oxer doesn’t need any speed to get over”. There’s nothing worse than having a horse galloping down to a Coffin on XC and deciding mayyyyybe today he doesn’t feel like that effort and puts his and his rider’s life at risk

Would you rather see a horse get 1 solid whack with a whip, or 10 solid whacks with heels on his sides? A strong enough rider could probably crack a rib or 2.

If someone’s going to go down the path of wanting spurs or whips banned, then you should also want to ban bits.

And riders and competitions.

Hello PETA.:lol::lol::lol:

[Weezer]

@JB

you’d be amazed at the horses who can learn that the show ring means there’s no whip or spur.

This is a very good point that I had not considered!

it’s also good to know that judges are watching the way they are being used, I didn’t know that.

[JB]

@Weezer

This is a very good point that I had not considered!

:lol: Yep, some smarty pants! You might have to throw the ribbon in the ring, but with the right tools you can still work on schooling/training so the horse learns (respectfully I hope) that he has a job that he needs to do. I don’t mean that to imply he’s a robot and should never disobey, that’s not what I’m saying. But they can’t just decide that today, that whale jump isn’t happening, or he’s just not into a good gallop down to a giant XC fence :eek:

it’s also good to know that judges are watching the way they are being used, I didn’t know that.

Oh yes! The question then becomes, which stewards are going to do the right thing and call them out. Sadly, they don’t always do the right thing

[J-Lu]

Spurs are refined aids in dressage. They are an extension of the heel and signal specific things to the horse. Things that a spurless heel can’t convey.

Whips aren’t used to whip a horse, they convey specific information to a horse and are an extension of the leg. Ideally, the horse is schooled to what the whip means on the ground.

People wanting to ban these aids likely don’t understand how they’re used/trained.

[dresssagediva]

i feel as though anything can be bad in the wrong hands and as long as these aids are used correctly and for aid/support not pain or punishment i am fine with it. i personaly use both as extensions of my limbs and they help me point out more specific aids. a horse should also be trained to understand these aids and how to react to them