I’ve got a nice appendix mare–I’ve never laid eyes on her TB dam and know nothing about her. I’d love people to know what people think of her pedigree.
I very much like Sheik Albadou’s pedigree. I’ve always loved the potential in Green Desert’s line, especially for eventing, since Danzig is becoming very well established in that discipline and the mare line is sterling all the way; and Welsh Pageant just happens to be the sire of Lauries Crusador, who was Hanoverian stallion of the year a few years ago. There are some other excellent things about the dam line. Light Tackle is by Salmon-Trout, a son of The Tetrarach, who is a reference sire for H/J. Gold Bridge is an excellent line for jumping. The Feola mare line is one of the best for pure athleticism; Prince Chevalier has been noted as one of the very best chasing sires of the late 20th Century. Fair Trial is on the list of the best eventing/jumping sires, and his son Court Martial is a two fer. Her dam was by the Matchem line stallion, Hurry On and her sire is of the Lady Josephine daughter, Lady Juror, who was by Son-In-Law.
Prospector’s Queen may be Mr P on top, but Mr P is proving to be an excellent line for sport if you’ve avoided his front legs. Iron Ruler is by Never Bend (well loved line in eventing) out of the Uvira daughter Obedient. That cross is packed with potential. Farther on the bottom, there is another line to Prince Chevalier; and Precipitation, the sire of Furioso, stallion used so heavily in German WB breeding, is by Hurry On out of a Bachelor’s Double mare. Bachelor’s Double seems to be one of Judy Wardrope’s reference lines for sport. Tail female is to Miss Cavendish, but allbreed has the wrong pedigree for her. The tail female line is superb. Miss Minx is by Mr. Jinks, and he shows up in sport horses pedigrees quite a bit, mostly through his daughters. He’s another descendant of The Tetrarch, and so that’s doubled with Sheik Albadou, and is a Herod line. Fearless Queen had many starts and was a Black Type Winner, so she had quality to pass to her daughters, if it happened, which it did in a couple of cases. It looks to be a relatively sound line, if starts indicate that.
Jade Hunter is Mr. P again, so you have quite a bit of Mr P close up. Jade Hunter’s dam has a droolworthy pedigree for sport. She goes back to some very well proved French lines in both chasing and the SF in sport. The bottom is filled at the back with very useful and proven lines in sport. Dam is tail male to Bull Dog/Teddy; and there are some other lines which are worth mentioning, like Count Fleet and Bahram and Daumier and Dark Star. The allbreed pedigrees for some of the bottom and obscurer lines are wrong.
Thank you VR - I appreciate the feedback. I bought him as a weanling as a re-sale project, but have decided to sell him now rather than wait & have him started. That will give me a little insight as to what his abilities might be. I like his sire - I’ve raised 3 by him. The 1st one (now 7) could jump the moon, the 2nd (now 4) is very much dressage (not exactly sure where it came from, but he moves really nicely). My 2 y/o is probably nicer than the 7 y/o. All 3 were bought for re-sale projects & I have been happy with all 3 for different reasons.
One would bet the farm that the movement came from Welsh Pageant/Tudor Minstrel/Hyperion. This is the single most proved line in TBs for dressagey movement.
Oh - good to know. He’s a nice boy, and is consigned with a dressage barn right now. I finally have the horse I always dreamed of & due to health problems, haven’t ridden in 3+ years so they’re all for sale. It sucks :(.
This thread has been very informative read for me! I know next to nothing about TB lines…:lol:
Anyone interested in picking apart my guy’s lines? http://www.pedigreequery.com/pack+o+gold I’m curious about other people’s insights into it.
Looking at Dutch breeding I would say look at the type of thoroughbred that can be found in horses like for example (I am not naming all the tb’s in the pedigrees, only the most recent ones):
Concorde (Furioso xx / Poet xx)
Heartbreaker (Coridon xx / Uppercut xx)
Indoctro (Cottage Son xx / Manometer xx / Ranzau xx/ Sherry Netherland xx)
Indorado (Rantzau xx)
Ircolando (Grand Empereur xx)
Karandasj (Sacarole xx / Poet xx / Uppercut xx)
Larino (Furioso xx / Poet xx / Abgar xx)
Mermus R (Ladykiller xx)
Namelus R (Abgar xx )
Numero Uno (Ladykiller xx)
Padinus (Tangelo xx)
Phin Phin (Rantzau xx / Sorgenbrecher xx)
Voltaire (Furioso xx / More Magic xx)
Contango (Kronprinz xx)
Flemmingh (Ladykiller xx)
Jazz (Le Val Blanc xx)
Negro (Afrikaner xx)
Saros xx
Abgar xx
Pantheon xx
Lucky Boy xx
Not sure what other dressage sires are on Elles list, but notice that the TB in Jazz has the Hyperion (Bay Ronald) son Hornbeam as damsire.
Le Val Blanc, whom I’ve never considered before, has the jumping TB line from Val de Loir on top and an excellent bottom side for sport.
Not sure what other dressage sires are on Elles list, but notice that the TB in Jazz has the Hyperion (Bay Ronald) son Hornbeam as damsire.
Le Val Blanc, whom I’ve never considered before, has the jumping TB line from Val de Loir on top and an excellent bottom side for sport.
And in the past we had Uniform by Wahtamin xx.
A picture of Wahtamin xx:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/287029/634/Horse_Wahtamin-big.jpg
Afrikaner xx:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/289273/366/Horse_Afrikaner-big.jpg
Pantheon xx:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/597759/680/Horse_Pantheon-big.jpg
Saros xx:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/690813/869/Horse_Saros-big.jpg
Le Val Blanc xx:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/754382/923/Horse_Le_Val_Blanc-big.jpg
Very informative thread! I’m a newbie when it comes to dissecting Thoroughbred bloodlines.
My guy is an '06, never raced. He’s huge at 17.3, 1400 lbs, massive bone. He does have Mr.P up front. Thoughts?
One of the first thoroughbreds used by the KWPN was Persian Flag xx.
But I am not sure if he left a lot behind to be honest.
http://hengsten.kwpn.nl/openbaar/abonnees/details.asp?onderdeel=algemeen&lang=nl&knpnr=H0000000685
For example Persian Flag xx can be found in this horse:
http://www.fokkerij-kaprice.com/Fokmerries/Kaprice.html
and he left behind this stallion:
http://www.horsetelex.nl/horses/pedigree/6423
Has Julio Mariner xx disappeared from the current KWPN population?
Julio Mariner xx can still be found within the population but he has never become a keur preferent stallion like Abgar xx, Pantheon xx, Lucky Boy xx and Saros xx.
http://www.horsetelex.nl/horses/progeny/1607
http://hengsten.kwpn.nl/openbaar/abonnees/details.asp?onderdeel=kwpnzonen&lang=uk&knpnr=H0000000501
http://hengsten.kwpn.nl/openbaar/abonnees/details.asp?onderdeel=kwpnmoeders&lang=uk&knpnr=H0000000501
http://hengsten.kwpn.nl/openbaar/abonnees/details.asp?onderdeel=fokregistratie&lang=uk&knpnr=H0000000501
At the moment we only have Albaran xx, Hopalong Cassidy xx, Roven xx, Wilawander and Watermill Swatch xx.
Kreator xx and Coconut Grove xx died and I can’t find where Wilawander xx is at the moment, Watermill Swatch xx is in Ireland and this year Hopalong Cassidy’s xx owner/stud was giving away free breedings of the stallion. The youngest of these stallions xx was born in 1999 and the rest of them are around 20 years old. So it is a bit of a sad affair in the Netherlands with the TB breed.
The TB’s also only get a few breedings per year, so they are financially not profitable for the owner.
I think that of Julio Mariner xx and Sit This One Out xx there is still frozen seemen available.
FWIW Compromise xx who is the sire line of Lucky Boy comes from the same mare family as Touch of Class and Special Memories (3i) as does Pretense xx. It is a small family so you do not see it much.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/behrens+court, http://www.pedigreequery.com/haveadrinkonme, These are my two. I first loved their pedigrees and then they certainly both lived up to them. Both are 16.3, very long legged and athletic. The mare has a huge stride, the gelding is a bit shorter backed but moves very well also. Both are super smart and although I haven’t jumped the mare yet the gelding seems to be able to jump the moon. Interestingly, both of these horses have very well set on necks and both are very uphill. Neither ran well.
For event horses from over the pond, you can add High Top, Chair Lift, Sky Boy, and Java Tiger.
The best Holsteiner TB’s: Anblick, Cottage Son, Manometer, Marlon, Ladykiller, Sacramento Song, Nevado, Nautilus, Waldenser, Wanderfalk, Frivol, Reinald, Sable Skinflint, Korenbleem and Tin Rod.
Some pictures.
Anblick:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/283768/071/Horse_Anblick-big.jpg
Cottage Son:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/178549/622/Horse_Cottage_Son-big.jpg
Manometer:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/599796/906/Horse_Manometer-big.jpg
Nautilus:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/388067/513/Horse_Nautilus-big.jpg
Waldenser:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/10295885/448/Horse_Waldenser-big.jpg
Frivol:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/267319/632/Horse_Frivol-big.jpg
Sable Skinflint:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/335040/705/Horse_Sable_Skinflint-big.jpg
Korenbleem:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/727498/132/Horse_Korenbleem-big.jpg
Tin Rod:
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/horse/373818/088/Horse_Tin_Rod-big.jpg
http://www.reitverein-duvensee.de/index_hengste.htm
Armand xx, Cyrkon xx, Ibisco xx and Waterdance xx.
