I like the way you think, Kyzteke!! :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;8180698]
So here is a GREAT opportunity for you to make yourself some $$: bet your vet a free castration for your little guy if he’s chestnut at 12-18 mos.
Promise you, it will be easy money…:D[/QUOTE]
I would be doing the exact same thing! 
So I have a question for you JB! My filly was/is grey, but… if she hadn’t been, what color would SHE have turned into. She was just the richest chocolatey brown when she was born.
Here she is at two weeks:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=858965968388&l=5165415c74
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=858965908508&l=a456f7b4db
and a few days ago at three years old. Yep. She’s grey. lol!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100699508606178&l=bf1ef0070a
[QUOTE=propspony;8181202]
So I have a question for you JB! My filly was/is grey, but… if she hadn’t been, what color would SHE have turned into. She was just the richest chocolatey brown when she was born.
Here she is at two weeks:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=858965968388&l=5165415c74
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=858965908508&l=a456f7b4db
and a few days ago at three years old. Yep. She’s grey. lol!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100699508606178&l=bf1ef0070a[/QUOTE]
She is still that color underneath the grey. 
She almost looks smokey black in the foal photos. What color were both of her parents (i.e. what color is the dam under her grey coat)?
[QUOTE=propspony;8181202]
So I have a question for you JB! My filly was/is grey, but… if she hadn’t been, what color would SHE have turned into. She was just the richest chocolatey brown when she was born.
Here she is at two weeks:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=858965968388&l=5165415c74
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=858965908508&l=a456f7b4db
and a few days ago at three years old. Yep. She’s grey. lol!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100699508606178&l=bf1ef0070a[/QUOTE]
Pretty close to the shade she was when born 
That’s the thing about gray - where non-gray foals start out sort of bleached looking, graying foals are born with the graying process having already started, and the first thing it does is darken/deepen, the pigment, which is why it ends up looking more adult-like in color.
She might not have been that exact shade, maybe a bit lighter, but pretty close - she wouldn’t likely have ended up a light brown, for example, nor a “black” seal brown. Just a rich dark chocolate.
Daventry, mom was a dark dark black that was almost blue, when I got her but she’d started to grey.
Here, it’s not the greatest for seeing her color, but this was long before the age of cell phones and easy access photos. I mean, just look at that awesome '90s style I’m rocking there.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100454316298528&l=23c82c6fed
Dad, I believe was a sorrel prior to greying, but I’m not 100% sure of that. Both of my mare’s parents were dark bay. (the dam greyed)
JB, aw man. As much as I wanted a grey, that was the most beautiful color. She looked like dark velvet. I grew up on a standardbred breeding farm, so I thought I was familiar with just about every shade of BROWN a baby could pop out as. But I’d never seen such a rich saturated soft color in my life. I just couldn’t stop petting her. LOLOL! She now thinks that never-ending petting is how life is supposed to work.
Pet me please!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=858965584158&l=b200634f63
Just as an aside, there is no “looks like smoky black”. Smoky black is a black horse with one copy of the creme gene. Creme is an incomplete dominant, and one copy cannot dilute black pigment (this is why buckskins retain their black points). A smoky black horse looks IDENTICAL to a black horse without a creme gene. There is a range of expression for all colors, including black, and some black horses will fade dramatically, some won’t fade at all, but one copy of the creme gene will NOT affect phenotype unless paired with another creme gene or, for example, a copy of pearl (which will create a pseudo-double-dilute). Sometimes a smoky black will have lighter or hazel eyes, but sometimes that happens without the creme gene as well, so unless you can tell by parentage or production (if the horse has a double-dilute parent, or has produced a dilute foal with a non-dilute mate) the only way to tell the difference between black and smoky black is to test. There are lots of people who swear up and down that they can tell visually, but scientifically, we know that is just not possible.
Yes, there is such a thing as “looks like smoky black” It’s not common for sure, most of them do look like a regular black, or maybe they never look quite black but always look like a slightly faded black.
But some of them look “purple”. The definitely don’t look black, and they really don’t look like just a faded black. The Nightlight mare that TCF bred is like that
Here’s a smoky black Morgan
It’s even more apparent, more often, as a foal. Most people who have seen enough black and smoky black foals would never mistake this one for regular black
Nor this one - his extreme striping is pretty common in smoky black foals
The “smoky black Morgan” from above, this is him as a foal - also very un-black like as far as typical black foals tend to go
It is true that most of the time, probably well over 90% of the time, you need to test to find out for sure, or you have that palomino foal pop out of a “black” mare and and obviously chestnut stallion
Minis don’t count - they have different rules for presentation so much of the time LOL A greater % of them look smoky black instead of black.
[QUOTE=epowers;8181512]
Just as an aside, there is no “looks like smoky black”. Smoky black is a black horse with one copy of the creme gene. Creme is an incomplete dominant, and one copy cannot dilute black pigment (this is why buckskins retain their black points). A smoky black horse looks IDENTICAL to a black horse without a creme gene. [/QUOTE]
I have to politely disagree. We have had 3 smoky black foals born here, and while it was clear they were all black based…they looked “different” than a true black foal. We knew as soon as they were born that they would DNA color test smoky black rather than just black…and they did! As JB mentioned, they had a bit of a purplish hue to their coats, and as they matured, the black looked…faded. I should note that all three foals were out of the same stallion x mare…so could have been a very different color presentation if it had been a non-related foal. Below are photos of some of those foals. It helped that both of these foals were born smoky black turning grey, as you could see the smoky black immediately in the foal coat.
Here is a DNA color tested black foal out of the same parents. As you can see, it was easy for us to tell which foals came out black and which foals were born smoky black.
Sorry Didi! Didn’t mean to sideline your topic.
FYI - Weimaraner puppies are born with stripes that fade in a day or two. I am enjoying all the foal pics.
No worries, Daventry! As I said, I am learning a lot. I find all of this very complicated and interesting!
