What Color is my Foal??!!

[Didi]

I have a mystery on my hands!! My colt is 2 months old as of yesterday and is starting to molt. Ever since he was born, there has been a great deal of debate and discussion over what color he will ultimately be - even the vets are divided!!

His dam, as you can see in one of the pictures, is dark bay, as is his sire. He is a Holsteiner/Hanoverian cross. He seems to have dark tips on his ears, the underside of his tail is very dark and always has been, and his mane is dark as well. His legs don’t really seem to be changing, though. I love him no matter what, but I am curious!

Thought I throw it out there for the CoTHers to have fun with, so have at it!

http://s284.photobucket.com/user/Schohunter/library/What%20Color%20Is%20He

[Daventry]

He is bay. His black points just didn’t show up well on his foal coat and are now starting to show through as he sheds out.

[Appsolute]

I agree with bay as well - often dark horses have very light foal coats on their legs etc.

For example this is a BLACK foal…

And the same horse mature

[Didi]

Thanks for the input. I thought bay for the longest but as I look at other bay foals, their manes and tails seemed so much blacker. Now that his legs don’t seem to be turning, the chestnut bettors are rubbing their hands with glee. Anyone think liver chestnut maybe??

[CHT]

What about “wild” bay?

[TandyTX]

Bay.

[Daventry]

Sorry, he is bay. Here is an example of a similar foal to yours. This is one of ours from a couple of years ago. Due to the mare testing homozygous black, chestnut is absolutely not an option. Despite the lack of clear black points, she is indeed a bay. www.daventryequestrian.com/Graduates/daventryscovergirlphotos.html

[Kyzteke]

There are at least 50 shades of bay (sorry…had to do it) and very often a bay foal is born without black legs. But you will begin to see them as he sheds out.

Not too likely a chestnut would have that dark a mane AND tail.

[Didi]

Thanks, y’all. I’ll love him forever no matter what, but I am kind of pulling for bay. Thanks, also, for the pics, Daventry, they do seem very similar in that the mane and tail were not as black as some I’ve seen and those legs look verrry familiar! :lol:

Kyzteke - there’s one in every crowd! :lol:

[FatCatFarm]

Definitely bay, and a cutie.

[beowulf]

hijacking… why is it that bays are usually born with light legs?

[MysticOakRanch]

I think the amniotic fluid “burns” black hair, which is why bays are born with blond legs and blacks often look like grullas. And most foals change colors dramatically as they shed, so it has to be something with the amniotic fluid they are floating around in for so many months.

Agree with everyone’s comments, he is bay - I’ve had a lot of bays who looked like that until they shedded out their baby fuzz. And then it comes out in little chunks - so they end up looking like moth eaten old toys:lol: I did actually know someone who was convinced they had some bizarre appaloosa when their horse started to shed.

[JB]

Definitely bay.

It’s not that bays are born with light legs, it’s that foals in general are both with lighter lower legs Chestnuts are often born with very white looking lower legs. The black body/leg pigment of bays and blacks are often diluted to silvery/mousey/“light black” or, in the case of bays, downright tan sometimes.

If these foals were going to turn gray, they would be born with the color they’d be as an adult if not for graying, so the bay foal turning gray would have much blacker lower legs, the black foal would be black instead of mousey, the chestnut foal would look like a chestnut horse without the very pale lower legs, etc.

It’s just a function of foal pigmentation - not often as deep/rich/pronounced as the adult color.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=JB;8179518]
Definitely bay.

It’s not that bays are born with light legs, it’s that foals in general are both with lighter lower legs Chestnuts are often born with very white looking lower legs. The black body/leg pigment of bays and blacks are often diluted to silvery/mousey/“light black” or, in the case of bays, downright tan sometimes.

If these foals were going to turn gray, they would be born with the color they’d be as an adult if not for graying, so the bay foal turning gray would have much blacker lower legs, the black foal would be black instead of mousey, the chestnut foal would look like a chestnut horse without the very pale lower legs, etc.

It’s just a function of foal pigmentation - not often as deep/rich/pronounced as the adult color.[/QUOTE]

thank you for this… but why does foal pigmentation functions that way?

[gumtree]

I’m with others, he will be bay.

This is a picture of one that is a few weeks old. Not a great one. We’ve had lots of foals out of this mare, they all turn out to be bay.

https://www.facebook.com/GumTreeStablesLLC/photos/ms.c.eJyzNDAzNLY0NbE0MTExMDfSs4TwTSF8QxjfHMw3swQA5p8Jnw~-~-.bps.a.906139626110731.1073741843.381612298563469/906139549444072/?type=1&theater

[JB]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8179544]
thank you for this… but why does foal pigmentation functions that way?[/QUOTE]
It could be as Mystic said - the amniotic fluid “burns” the color, and it would make sense that the darker the original color, the more it is faded at birth. That alone doesn’t explain tan legs but black(ish) mane and tail on a bay foal. However, mane/tail hairs are very different from the rest, so that might explain the difference. But too, many bay foals are born with a diluted look to their mane and tail, and are often born with “baby flaxen”, especially in the tail.

That said - I suspect another component is camouflage.

[D_BaldStockings]

yup.
Camoflage.

In some species neonates arrive with ‘wild’ or pre-domestication coloring which changes as the animals mature. Foals would appear some shade of ‘dirt or dead grass’ for lack of a better term.

Supposedly makes them more difficult for predators to see.

[EvieG13]

Love a nice bay! Cute little bugger.

A similar weird color thing happens with cats like Siamese who have dark points. They are born completely cream and their points slowly fill in. In cats it’s actually because of heat! Because of genetics the catalyst enzyme for producing melanin is shut down by the heat, but when they are born the extremities cool to the ambient temperature and presto chango! This link explains it quite well.

And I’m sure many of us remember the scene from 101 Dalmations where Cruella discovers the puppies–“Oh, the devil take it, they’re mongrels. No spots! No spots at all! What a horrid little white rat!”

When I was a child I was a blonde but it darkened to brown. When I was 20 I had cancer, and after chemo the first inch or two of my hair was blonde again! It was also extra soft and downy like a baby’s, but after that came back in normal texture and brown (although slightly curlier and a slightly nicer shade as well lol)!

Hair color genetics are fun and babies more so! Congrats on the little beastie!

[Didi]

Thanks to all of you - this thread has proven very interesting!! I love to learn and am learning a lot. Thanks also, Evie, for the really interesting parallels with other animals (including humans). Especially thanks for all the compliments on my little rug rat! I love him - quandaries and all! LOL!!

PS - I still have one BO and Vet swearing chestnut! :lol:

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Didi;8180256]
Thanks to all of you - this thread has proven very interesting!! I love to learn and am learning a lot.

PS - I still have one BO and Vet swearing chestnut! :lol:[/QUOTE]

Perfect example of the truism that just because they have DVM after their names doesn’t mean they know everything about horses. That DVM obviously hasn’t produced dozens of foals, like most of the breeders who responded.

I doubt if color or color genetics is even touched on in vet school; if so, it’s very light, so the only way a vet is going to learn that stuff is by seeing ALOT of foals.

Yet in my eyes, your cute little guy is a text-book bay foal and I’m sure many other posters see that as well – absolutely zero question he’s bay, given his parentage & appearance.

So here is a GREAT opportunity for you to make yourself some $$: bet your vet a free castration for your little guy if he’s chestnut at 12-18 mos.

Promise you, it will be easy money…