What do I do with this dog?

[Heinz_57]

Just to clarify a few things:

There is no AC out here. There is no pound. The only shelters that accept “found” dogs or owner surrenders are full, or require you to prove residency in cities I do not live in. Animals get dumped out here frequently. There is literally no place for me to take him right now.

Shooting a livestock-harassing dog is legal, yes. I do think the horse-chasing issue could be corrected with training, and that is something we are going to work on asap since I still have to take him outside.

I very much appreciate the concern expressed for human safety, but there has been absolutely nothing to make me concerned about that at this time. If there was, he would already be PTS. I am not a huge fan of pit bulls, but I also don’t condemn him just for being one.

It’s the aggression between the dogs where I get hung up. It’s not really much of a life for him being stuck in a crate most of the time, but is it better than being dead? Is it something that can be mitigated with training and proper socialization? I don’t know.

[NancyM]

What about putting a lightweight muzzle on him? I’m not a fan of the breed, and I’m not sure what I would do if in your position. But perhaps if he has to interact with other animals without the option to fight with them or bite, he may readjust his behaviour? If you want to try? Just a suggestion.

[Heinz_57]

I had to make an order for dog food last night, so I threw in a basket muzzle that should work for him and we can at least explore the dog issues without anyone getting hurt.

[Djones]

You have him euthanized. That’s what you do.

[cutter99]

@Heinz_57, I found myself in a situation similar to yours about 7-8 years ago. My husband and I found a hound puppy not far from home, who appeared to be living in a ditch and starving to death. We picked her up and brought her home, thinking very naively a rescue would take her.

There was no way we could keep her, even though we tried. She was high energy, impossible to leave off a leash due to her scent drive, and rough on our elderly dog, who did not wish to be terrorized by a puppy. I knew for sure she could not stay when she attacked the smallest dog in the house, and had him pinned to the ground growling aggressively at him.

It took about 6 months until we finally found a small, private rescue to take her. In the meantime we had all her shots done, had her spayed and put on heartworm preventative. I also made a hefty $300 donation to get them to take her.

I spent the better part of 2 days sending e-mails to every and any rescue I could find. I followed up the e-mails with phone calls. I asked rescues for other recommendations. I also searched Facebook for any possible leads. The rescue who finally took her was run by a dog trainer who spent time evaluating the dogs while keeping them in her own home. She found a great fit for this dog after evaluating her for a couple weeks and working on training.

Try networking to see if you can find a knowledgeable rescue to take him. If not, euthanasia should be an understandable option.

[lenapesadie]

I’m going to chime in on the e collar sub thread. IMO the e collar is better used to proof the recall utilizing the beep, vibrate, zap progression. First in an area without the subject’s triggers then progressing in proximity to the triggers (other dogs, horses, running vehicles etc.). This gives the handler a tool to call the dog off. It’s not guaranteed that it’s going to retrain the dog’s inclinations but if done consistently over time might lessen those inclinations.

Waiting until the dog is already in drive to zap him could absolutely make things worse. Some dogs will back down from that some dogs will go to level 11.

Training this dog up will be time consuming and he’ll need to be crated or strictly supervised for a long while.

OP I think I would euthanize this dog BUT I live in an area with animal control services so I’m only speculating on what I think I might do. I know you describe the dog as not being aggressive towards people but if God forbid a dog fight breaks out in your house that’s a “prime” opportunity for a human to get hurt. Any slip in the separation management could have a poor outcome.

On the other hand, I think you might have better luck placing this dog with a rescue in a couple of weeks after the holiday season frenzied craze is over!

[McGurk]

Disclaimer: I am not a dog trainer. Please take the advice of actual dog trainers over mine.

My sister has a dog-aggressive dog that would lunge and snap at other dogs while on a leash. Large breed dog, tiny sister = bad situation. Everything she did - different collars and harnesses, etc, pulling the dog back, yelling, escalated the situation, because the dog actually thought it was defending HER against the other dogs. The more animated she became, the more the dog thought the strange dog represented a threat. It wasn’t so much aggression as it was protecting her person.

What has helped is de-escalation and a can of compressed air as a correction. Out walking, as soon as another dog or cat is sighted, she puts the dog in a sit-stay. If the dog reacts to the strange dog, it gets a little spray of compressed air in the face, if it sits quietly, it gets pets and treats. It has made a huge difference in her being able to walk the dog in her neighborhood without drama.

All that said, I would never trust the dog off leash around other dogs, and I am also very watchful if there are food, treats or toys around.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide.

[Heinz_57]

@cutter99

It took about 6 months until we finally found a small, private rescue to take her. In the meantime we had all her shots done, had her spayed and put on heartworm preventative. I also made a hefty $300 donation to get them to take her.

Bless you for being so patient! Goodness. This guy has a vet appointment tomorrow to get him UTD on things and for a neuter consultation. I’m hopeful we can get the snip taken care of ASAP.

[QuestionMark]

I think you’d be absolutely making a good decision to euthanize if that’s what is best for the management of all the animals you are trying to keep safe.

I wonder though if the neuter has a small chance of improving the dog/dog interactions. My altered dog is SO different around intact dogs (in a happy, very energized way in her case, but maybe for some dogs the energy would be aggressive or unhappy instead).

[luvmyhackney]

Personally I would Euth. There are enough dogs that don’t have dog or livestock aggression and looking for homes why should people take on the liability.

It’s a colder view point but all it takes is one opps or mistake from the future owner and I don’t know many who want to take on that liability.

[Bluey]

@Heinz_57

Bless you for being so patient! Goodness. This guy has a vet appointment tomorrow to get him UTD on things and for a neuter consultation. I’m hopeful we can get the snip taken care of ASAP.

Look, I expect the veterinarian will tell you when hearing his story to go ahead and let him go, not neutering, etc.

It is not fair to other dogs to have to be around dogs they feel are dangerous as that one is to other dogs, think about everyone, this dog, other dogs and the humans that have to live with managing him and the guilt when, is not an if, an accident happens and someone, dog or human, get hurt, by no real fault of this dog, he is who he is.

Retraining is fine on a dog without so many hits against him.
Reality is that with this one is just wishful thinking.
Everyone that has seen those dogs over time and the not very good quality of life the dogs have to endure being managed, other dogs and critters stressed about those dogs being around and the humans as you are between a rock and a hard place had to eventually face reality.

Some times, there is no real solution that is not awful.
I am afraid that is where you and the dog are now.
Do find a veterinarian and consult, but don’t be surprised if a kind end may not be best in this painful situation, sorry.

[OzarksRider]

@Heinz_57

This guy has a vet appointment tomorrow to get him UTD on things and for a neuter consultation. I’m hopeful we can get the snip taken care of ASAP.

This sounds like you really, really want to help this guy. When you talk to the vet, ask for his or her impressions about the dog’s aggressive tendencies. Is this a hopelessly dangerous dog, or can he learn to live peacefully with other animals?

How old is this dog? If he’s young the aggression may not be too ingrained and he may settle down in time. Neutering may also calm him down, but it will take at least a few weeks.

Is there a dog trainer near you who could evaluate the dog’s temperament? This could help you decide what to do, and you might get some valuable suggestions for addressing the aggression. Or if the trainer thinks the problem can’t be cured you would be more confident that euthanasia is the right decision.

It’s possible that keeping the dog in a crate for extended periods is contributing to the problem, but I absolutely understand that it’s necessary right now. I think putting a muzzle on him and letting him out more may help. And I still think an e-collar would be useful. The suggestion to train him using progressive corrections (voice, beep, vibration, shock) is good, but when he’s harassing your horses you have to hit him hard and fast. When he’s focused on the horses he’s not listening to you, and he will likely ignore a beep and a vibration, so you have to do whatever it takes to get his attention and make him understand that you will be obeyed. And I bet you wouldn’t have to do it more than once or twice.

Finally, when you’re considering all the comments on this thread keep in mind that none of us have seen this dog and our suggestions are coming from our own experiences and knowledge. The opinions of your vet and possibly a trainer should carry more weight, because they would be able to evaluate the dog directly.

[candyappy]

@Heinz_57

Meanwhile, doggo and our dog do NOT get along. Instant growling by both and lunging on the part of doggo - our dog will back off on voice command but this guy has to be physically dragged away or he will keep trying to attack.

@Heinz_57

To add to the dog issues, he has now begun terrorizing the horses

We had a young Pit Bull ( or cross) starving and obviously on his own for a while show up here. I did my best to find his people and no area shelters would take him. I fed him away from my house out in the open field and did my best to not start a relationship with him. I fed him and nothing else.

After several days he was grafted to me anyways. Started being aggressive when my dogs approached me and he was thankfully fenced out of my animals pastures but he was showing obvious predator tendencies and my goats and horses were terrified of his presence.

The day he growled at my dog was his last day here. My husband immediately humanely euthanized him.

It was the right thing to do and I think you have done all you can. When a stray is an obvious risk to your animals their time is up. It is the kindest option.

[Heinz_57]

Just want to say I am grateful for the thoughts, ideas, and opinions shared. I’m listening and thinking.

[Jenerationx]

@lenapesadie

I’m going to chime in on the e collar sub thread. IMO the e collar is better used to proof the recall utilizing the beep, vibrate, zap progression. First in an area without the subject’s triggers then progressing in proximity to the triggers (other dogs, horses, running vehicles etc.). This gives the handler a tool to call the dog off. It’s not guaranteed that it’s going to retrain the dog’s inclinations but if done consistently over time might lessen those inclinations.

Waiting until the dog is already in drive to zap him could absolutely make things worse. Some dogs will back down from that some dogs will go to level 11.

Training this dog up will be time consuming and he’ll need to be crated or strictly supervised for a long while.

All of this. You don’t just put an e-collar on and zap a dog that’s already in drive mode. They need to be conditioned to an e-collar and how it works and how to turn it off well before you use it for this. You would not use it for dog aggression… you would break the distraction well before any reaction happened or it would be useless.

I feel sorry for the dog, but it sounds like you’ve done everything you can and 23 hours a day in a crate is no life.

[2DogsFarm]

Please don’t wait until you or DH are hurt.
A friend was bitten by a rescue with clueless owners. Dog was surrendered only after both “rescuers” were bitten.

Your vet might know someone who will take him.
Long ago a friend - who already had an Afghan -got a lovely Dobe from his vet when owners surrendered for euth.
If vet has no ideas, euth could be the best solution.
From your pics, he is a nice-looking dog.
But looks won’t protect your older dog, horses or yourself.
You’ve gone Above & Beyond already.
Not unkind to assure he won’t end up in a worse situation.

[NancyM]

Will your dog be able to discipline him adequately if he can not bite back? Teach him some dog/dog manners? Like horses, dogs teaching dogs can be very effective, no language barrier. Gelding him may improve things too. Good luck. If you decide that it isn’t going to be a successful situation, a friendly rancher with a gun can solve this issue for you, avoiding argument from those who may not agree with euthanasia.

[SusanO]

If you do not live in the Southeast and I suppose Texas is the same way - there are hundreds, no thousands of pit bulls and pit crosses in shelters, dumped, roaming stray. Several of the shelters down here are trying to be No-Kill so that means they are full to the brim with a long wait list. They can ship out the cute puppies and smaller dogs to parts of the country with saner spay/ neuter laws but the supply outstrips the demand. And most dog rescues do NOT want agressive dogs. They barely have the resources to feed and vet the dogs they have and are not dog trainers. So I would not expect a knight in shining armor to appear anytime soon.

If euthanization is the decision - at least the dog has a painless end with a warm spot and a full stomach which is a fate much kinder than most dumped dogs have. He will not get hit by a car and suffer, slowly starve, die of mange or disease or freeze to death. Sometimes we have to do the best that we can even if it is not perfect.

[Lunabear1988]

OP, it’s obvious you have a huge heart and really want to help this dog. I see no harm and neutering and seeing if the behavior improves (being very cautious though.) Or maybe your vet can guide you about the chances of a change of behavior from being neutered.

But I think rehoming a dog with any aggression issues is too risky and not likely a success. Add in the fact that he’s a bully breed really doesn’t help unfortunately. Just the amount of damage he can possibly inflict on another dog makes it very risky.

I have a dog that I got as a puppy that’s difficult. Just poor breeding honestly. He’s not a bad dog but I can’t imagine anyone else wanting to deal with him. He’s actually not dog aggressive but very reactive to strangers. So a little different but still, he takes so much management. I would not willing take in a dog that requires so much management if I knew beforehand.

[Rackonteur]

[quote=“Heinz_57, post:21, topic:780363”] I
very much appreciate the concern expressed for human safety, but there has been absolutely nothing to make me concerned about that at this time.
[/quote]

You sound almost word-for-word like the man in TN who tweeted about his two bully dogs.
THEN they killed both of his children and nearly killed his wife. Please protect your Border Collie, your DH, and yourself.