What do I do with this dog?

[S1969]

Tough situation.

A basket muzzle is a great choice for now while you consider other things.

I’m not anti e-collar, and would go as far as to say that in this situation a hard correction might be useful (even without training, which of course is ideal, but…in this situation where it’s not installed yet, I might still try). But I definitely like the idea of the muzzle BEFORE trying that.

That said - I have 3 unneutered males, and they take some managing. And I don’t consider it out of line for any one of my dogs (or all 3) to be absolutely unwilling to accept a new unneutered male being thrown into the mix. BUT. None of my dogs have the capacity to kill another dog (or person). So I would take that into very, very serious consideration here. If you are not sure the dog is in control, and/or that the behavior is not more than just new dog bristling at each other…I would consider euthanasia.

And I’d feel terrible about it. But I’d feel worse if he killed my dog, or if I rehomed him and he hurt/killed something else.

[Heinz_57]

@Rackonteur

You sound almost word-for-word like the man in TN who tweeted about his two bully dogs.
THEN they killed both of his children and nearly killed his wife. Please protect your Border Collie, your DH, and yourself.

I really do appreciate the concern. No judgment, I understand that this would be an easy decision for some. It is not, for me.

[QuestionMark]

I think that if you are struggling with wanting to do the right thing for everyone and also helping this poor dog who certainly did not ask to be in this situation, maybe it would help to commit yourself to being there in his last moments, and doing everything you can to facilitate his death being humane, comfortable, warm, and dignified (if you feel that you can truly handle being in that position). He deserves better than the hand he was dealt, but a kind and easy death is a gift too.

I had a dog with a bite history (that I didn’t know about when I got her), and eventually this caught up to us and after 3 years of being completely in love with each other I had to make the decision to euthanize her. It was one of the most horrible and difficult decisions I have made in my life. This situation is not the same, but I will say that making the conscious choice to hold and love her at her moment of death made me feel like I did everything I could possibly do.

[erinmeri]

Here are some resources from Best Friends that might help:

Aggressive Dog: Resources for Getting Help

I think a basket muzzle and neutering are great first steps and hope this pup can find the right home. Hopefully your vet has some good advice and resources for you!

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

If you look at the old thread, you’ll know I am a firm believer that bully breeds need experienced, dog-savvy homes, which is why the shelters are full of them. And I wouldn’t feel guilty, whatever you decide.

But I might contact a rescue that transports dogs out of the area. If this dog can get a second chance, it would be with someone far away from livestock with money to sink into training. But that’s a very long shot, and there is a chance of him falling into inexperienced hands.

Sadly, the shelters are filled with high-energy, dog but not necessarily people-reactive bully breeds up here, though, as well. If he was a small dog, the calculation would be different.

[Equibrit]

Maybe these guys could help.

https://www.texaspitcrew.org/

[clanter]

you are in middle Texas? if so you might want to contact “Canine Connection” in Fort Worth area… Karen Deeds has done a lot behavior modification work, she MAY have advise on what to do with this found dog

We know the Deeds through Dog Scouts of America

https://www.deedscanineconnection.com/about

[luvmyhackney]

It’s a hard decision cause you are such a kind hearted individual.

Could he be managed, absolutely… with lots of training and time put in.

I’ve been fostering a cattle dog mix who is a lovely dog, not aggressive in the least and having a difficult time finding a home that is willing to manage her correctly and continue her training. I can’t imagine adding animal aggression on top of that as most animal lovers have other pets.

[pony_grandma]

I’m totally pragmatic bc I don’t have the money to throw at it heedlessly. There are SOOOO many animals that need loving care. There’s a large city near me that has one large shelter that is totally FULL of bully breed dogs of all ages. You need a noise cancelling headset to enter the building. It is miserable to see the result that people have created with these dogs. One dog won’t even dent the problem.

[EssexFells]

Euthanize, without a moment’s guilt or hesitation.

[OzarksRider]

I’m glad this is a hard decision for you, just as I think it should be a hard decision for any of us if we should find ourselves in a similar position. Dogs (and cats and horses and many other creatures) are sentient beings, and we have an ethical duty to consider their interests, especially if we intend to kill or otherwise harm them. That doesn’t mean that the death of the animal is never acceptable; it just means the decision should be made only after considering the interests of all, including the animal to be harmed. You have done this, so whatever decision you make will be the best one that could be made for all concerned.

[McGurk]

For the people advocating euthanasia, I get it, I do. And I don’t disagree with you, I think that option is and should be on the table.

But it’s easy to be glib and cavalier about choosing euth when the animal in question isn’t curled up at your feet, has bonded with you and when you aren’t the one who is with the animal when it happens.

It is almost never an easy or easily reached decision, and it shouldn’t be.

I give @Heinz_57 lots of credit for doing what she’s done so far for the dog and support for whatever she decides going forward.

[Maythehorsebewithme]

@McGurk

For the people advocating euthanasia, I get it, I do. And I don’t disagree with you, I think that option is and should be on the table.

But it’s easy to be glib and cavalier about choosing euth when the animal in question isn’t curled up at your feet, has bonded with you and when you aren’t the one who is with the animal when it happens.

It is almost never an easy or easily reached decision, and it shouldn’t be.

I give @Heinz_57 lots of credit for doing what she’s done so far for the dog and support for whatever she decides going forward.

This times 1000.

[OnAMission]

I’m holding out hope that the vet had some ideas that might help other than euth… or eased OP’s mind enough to make a decision either way.

[Rackonteur]

@McGurk

But it’s easy to be glib and cavalier about choosing euth when the animal in question isn’t curled up at your feet, has bonded with you and when you aren’t the one who is with the animal when it happens.

I don’t know … is it so easy when the animal isn’t yours? I have been there, with an animal who had bonded with me and whom I loved, when the vet put her down. But she was old and unwell.
I do not think I would be talking euthanasia for this guy had I not read that horrific story about the two bully-type dogs and the family in Tennessee so recently. But that one hit home. Maybe because I had recently been sitting in a vet’s waiting room when two pit-bull-types came in on leash and kept continually banging into me while their owner had them on leash and was at the counter talking to the receptionist and both of them were completely oblivious to the fact that two very large dogs were banging into me and trying to climb into my lap.
I was OK with those dogs that day… I like big dogs and I have no breed prejudices. But you can bet that my reaction – and actions – would have been very very different had I previously read that Tennessee horror story. And I have major problems with owners who show themselves clueless idiots when it comes to their dogs.

@Heinz_57 I am so glad that this dog fell into your lap (so to speak) instead of the hands of some clueless soul. He is experiencing love and kindness and good sense while he is with you, and I am glad for him.

[McGurk]

@Rackonteur,

I think it’s easy to conclude euthanasia is the best option if you’re not looking the animal in the eye at the time.

It’s harder when our emotions are engaged.

Easy enough for you and I to be dispassionate and rational about this dog.

I (silently) criticized a dear riding friend for years who was sold an absolutely misrepresented useless horse who then got EPM. I could emphatically say the horse should have been put down after the diagnosis. She sunk good money after bad into him, never had a single good ride on him, and he was never right after the EPM diagnosis. But I didn’t have him in my barn, I didn’t see his head over the stall door every day, didn’t groom him and care for him.

So while I still think he should have been put down YEARS ago, I do not say so to her.

And I thought of her, and my attitude toward her, when I struggled with the decision to put two unsound, retired horses down this fall. If I laid out the facts on paper for any reasonable person, the answer would be: “Yes. Put them down now, before the cold weather. It’s the best thing to do. They’ve had a good life. You don’t owe them anything.”

It took me months for my rational side to convince my emotional side, who had loved these two creatures for over a decade.

It’s clear that @Heinz_57 has a huge soft heart and is trying to do right by this dog. Has already done so. I’m also confident that if she runs out of other options and resources, she’ll reluctantly and sadly put the dog down.

I just think that since she’s the one who will have to do it, she deserves a little understanding and grace.

[candyappy]

@McGurk

But it’s easy to be glib and cavalier about choosing euth

I don’t see anyone being glib/cavalier about suggesting it. At least in my case I was putting my dogs safety first. No way could she have held her own against a pitt bull cross if he decided to come after her and she was not a dog to back down. Why would I ever put my own dog in that position?

It wasn’t easy for my husband either. It is just sometimes necessary when you have nowhere to go with a dog who is a threat to your own animals.

[Jarpur]

When the neighbor’s dog went after our horses, he turned into Cujo in front of my eyes. This was the first time I’d witnessed this myself, although the dog had been on our property many, many times (and my husband had spoken to the owner every time we saw the dog over here).

That dog changed in an instant into a stone cold killer! I now know what people are talking about when they say a dog “snapped.” It was a scary situation. We were second-guessed afterwards by a long-time friend who has never been in this situation, but another friend, who grew up on a ranch, had seen this sudden switch in a family dog (which was put down for going after a neighbor’s goats), and knew what we’d experienced.

It was not an easy thing to see the neighbor’s children crying in the street as Animal Control took the dog off. Our primary responsibility is to our animals, to protect them. We realized that calling AC on the dog chasing livestock meant a death sentence, but we’d given the owner so very many opportunities to confine the dog on their large property.

Of course I felt sorry that the dog paid the price of his owner’s stupidity, but I would have felt far worse if one of my horses, my dog, my husband, or myself had been injured or killed.

[skydy]

@Heinz_57, it would be a terrible thing if the dog got loose and attacked your sweet rescue horse. Please consider all possibilities. You are a very kind human being, but the dog is a serious risk, and Bo wouldn’t have a very good chance against an aggressive pit bull.

[Equibrit]

Maybe closer;

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