What do you expect out of a jumping lesson?

[supershorty628]

I don’t do much flatwork on days where I school over fences. I spend the days prior to that getting the flatwork I know I need to address tuned up. But, with that being said, I don’t jump every week, and I don’t tend to school courses much at all, so take that with a grain of salt. A big one. Like one of those chunks of Himalayan pink salt or something.

When I’m schooling over fences, I do about 15 minutes of basic flatwork (i.e. walk, trot, canter, work on adjustability a bit, done) before starting to jump. Now, that’s mostly because my mare is very particular about when she wants to do flatwork and when she doesn’t, but many of Kip’s lessons were like that - when the goal was to work on courses that would be at a show.

I would not expect a jumping lesson to go over an hour - if anything, I’d expect less than that. But to me, a jumping lesson where you’re working on courses is similar to a horse show; you’re seeing how well you can apply the flatwork that you’ve been working on. I wouldn’t drill the flatwork immediately before that because I’d want to see where I was, progress-wise, but I’m perfectly content to say that I’m in the minority there.

[IPEsq]

For lessons in general, I think variety of exercises is good. But then I see lessons as just lessons, and we work on what we need to work on based on the rider’s level, horse’s level, and the goals for both. I think there’s a trend for “advanced” students (definition may vary) get jumping lessons (meaning no flatwork instruction, jumping consists of courses to various degrees of difficulty) 99% of the time and no instruction on everything else. I think this has to do with the increasing trend of teaching riders how to show (and pilot outside-inside-outside-inside with the occasional bending line or rollback) rather than how to ride. Not saying all trainers do this but it appears to be increasingly common to find H/J trainers that teach this way rather than provide well-rounded instruction. I’m reminded of this whenever I watch an eq test lately. Oy.

[equestrian13]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;7632000]
I think this has to do with the increasing trend of teaching riders how to show (and pilot outside-inside-outside-inside with the occasional bending line or rollback) rather than how to ride. Not saying all trainers do this but it appears to be increasingly common to find H/J trainers that teach this way rather than provide well-rounded instruction.[/QUOTE]

I think this may be part of what I’m experiencing. The first barn I described above was fun & challenging, and it was all about learning how to ride by doing the most work during quality lessons. Recently my lessons are more like a warm-up before a show, working briefly on a couple of courses and that’s it.

[alternate_universe]

My group lessons are 60 minutes, but sometimes a bit less depending on what we’re doing, the temperature, etc. The school horses are busy and we’re not about to get them too tired. We usually warm up a bit on our own as everyone comes in and our trainer wraps up the previous lesson. Then we all flat together. Sometimes we work on SI/HI/leg yield and lengthening/collecting, other times we do some exercises with poles. As for actual jumping, sometimes my coach as a specific exercise or two over fences that we focus on. Other times it’s a course, but it’s always a course with a point, like working on bending lines or collecting and lengthening between fences. We start with the first one or two and keep adding on until we’re doing the whole thing. Towards the end of the time, sometimes she’ll have us pick one section of the course to do one last time.

I am under the impression that many of the HJ barns near me don’t put much emphasis on flat work either or schooling over more technical courses. Perhaps if most of their students are only going to schooling shows and/or doing <3’ classes they don’t see the demand to teach them anything more advanced.

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=triplethreat;7631216]
Snarky much? If I want a flat lesson I’ll pay for one with a dressage trainer. If I need a jumping lesson I’d rather get what I’m paying for. And btw, the reason dressage riders spend so much time on flat is because that is what their discipline calls for…since they don’t jump…at all…is that confusing to you? And do you know a lot of open jumpers? Because the ones I’ve known don’t do a lot of flatwork in their lessons either. Because they’re paying for someone’s expertise over fences, not for someone to tell them to do a shoulders in down the long side.[/QUOTE]

:lol: Snarky? It was meant to be.

The interesting thing I’ve found about OJ, is that it improved in direct relationship to the flatwork. There’s more to flatwork, than S/I down the long side. There is the ability to keep that horse straight, lengthen, and shorten strides, and rebalance, without going to the hand. It just happens.

[ladyj79]

I’ve lived and worked with professional jumper riders most of my life. The good ones and ones who want to be good work very hard on perfecting their flat work.

That said, there are certainly instructors who will accomodate people who just want to jump things.

[kalidascope]

triplethreat, it sounds like there is so much you could learn on the flat to improve your jumping. Jumping is not the only thing that improves jumping. And flatwork is not the same as warming up for jumping. The best jumpers I have know hold flatwork as integral to their training - both in dedicated sessions and as a part of a jumping session.

If you already “know how to” do leg yield or shoulder in, then work on doing it better - refining your position, your aids, your positioning of the horse, his bend, his impulsion and so on. Doing lateral work is fine, but doing it better is better for the horse. Just might help you to broaden your horizons.

[Satin_Filly]

I don’t have an instructor, I’m on my own breaking/training greenies but I think everyone is due for a tune up with a pair of eyes on the ground. So I did just that, scheduled a lesson at my friend’s barn and her fairly BN rider/“trainer”. I paid $60 for what I thought was going to be a private lesson on a decently schooled horse so we could focus on me. Other clients are in the ring and ask “can we lesson today?”. So now I’m in a group lesson…okay not what I was expecting but whatever. I was told to warm up the horse and we will start the lesson after that. I got to jump about 5 jumps, and the only critique I received was “keep an even steady rhythm”. I drove 1.5 hours and paid $60 for just that. I was pissed and never returned for another lesson. After talking to my friend about my lesson and how I was not satisfied, she explained that trainer does most of the schooling rides and the horses are well schooled and lessons are hardly any flat work and mostly jumping. So, OP…perhaps this is a similar situation to the barns you’ve been to recently? Trainer does most of the riding and customers hop on already tacked up horse and get a short lesson. Its not what I grew up with either, and if this is a common trend, I fear for the future of our sport!!

When it comes to trainers, the proof is in the pudding. This particular professional I had a “lesson” with is a fairly BN RIDER, but not a great trainer IMO…come to find out her students aren’t that great of riders and that speaks volumes to me.

[meupatdoes]

It’s quite normal for poor quality jumping lessons.

Lessons do not have to take a long time, but what you DO do should be valuable. Getting one or two good flat work exercises to practice until the next lesson is better than 45 minutes of flatting around with poor direction.

Getting no flat work instruction is crappy whether the lesson in 40 minutes or an hour and thirty.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=triplethreat;7630394]
Am I the only one who does NOT want the flat stuff? With my old trainer I was ready to start jumping when she got there. Lessons were about 45 minutes but never timed. We were done when we were done. Sometimes that meant 30 minutes sometimes that meant an hour.

I’m not saying that if my trainer has something specific to work on on the flat I won’t do it. But don’t have me warm my horse up. I already did that before you got here, including lateral work which we do pretty much every ride.

I do not like the first 20 minutes of my lesson to be stuff that I already know how to do just for the sake of doing it. Like I said, if there a specific exercise for my horse that has a point, fine.[/QUOTE]

I showed up for my first lesson with Gary Zook and was promptly expected to do shoulder in, haunches in, plie (look it up), half pass etc etc etc. He didn’t ask if i knew it, he expected to see it.

But I guess your trainer is probably better than Gary Zook.

[Preposterous_Ponies]

I love my coach because lessons are incredibly flexible - we work on what we need to work on. She’s an eventer, so is equipped to handle both flat work and over fences. I’m currently (pretending to be) a hunter.

Private lessons are 30 mins, but have been known to go up to 45 mins.

Usually I just show up and we work on whatever she wants me to work on that day (flat or jumping, or both). However, if I have specified that I want a jumping lesson, I try to warm up beforehand and we start jumping immediately. If a flat problem arises during a jumping lesson, we stop jumping and fix it (or try to haha).

Yesterday I warmed up on my own and was coached over fences for maybe 15 or 20 minutes - we both then agreed to leave it, because the last few fences had been stellar. It’s not the quantity, it’s the quality.

[equestrian13]

[QUOTE=Satin Filly;7636055]
So I did just that, scheduled a lesson at my friend’s barn and her fairly BN rider/“trainer”. I paid $60 for what I thought was going to be a private lesson on a decently schooled horse so we could focus on me. Other clients are in the ring and ask “can we lesson today?”. So now I’m in a group lesson…okay not what I was expecting but whatever. I was told to warm up the horse and we will start the lesson after that. I got to jump about 5 jumps, and the only critique I received was “keep an even steady rhythm”. I drove 1.5 hours and paid $60 for just that. I was pissed and never returned for another lesson. After talking to my friend about my lesson and how I was not satisfied, she explained that trainer does most of the schooling rides and the horses are well schooled and lessons are hardly any flat work and mostly jumping. So, OP…perhaps this is a similar situation to the barns you’ve been to recently? Trainer does most of the riding and customers hop on already tacked up horse and get a short lesson. Its not what I grew up with either, and if this is a common trend, I fear for the future of our sport!! When it comes to trainers, the proof is in the pudding. This particular professional I had a “lesson” with is a fairly BN RIDER, but not a great trainer IMO…come to find out her students aren’t that great of riders and that speaks volumes to me.[/QUOTE]

Correct, and not what I am used to either. I hope this is not becoming the norm for training/showing programs. I’ll need to do more research into my next barn…

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=equestrian13;7636457]
Correct, and not what I am used to either. I hope this is not becoming the norm for training/showing programs. I’ll need to do more research into my next barn…[/QUOTE]

I should probably add to my previous responses…

Like some other posters on this thread, I do predominantly flat work (full on dressage) with my horses and only jump occasionally. They maintain their competition resumes in hunterland, and eventually get marketed to hunterland, but predominantly school dressage.

Therefore, I go to “specialist” trainers. When I show up to ride with a “specialist” hunter jumper trainer, I don’t expect a dressage lesson, and sometimes the jumping sessions are only 15 or 20 minutes long. We show up ready to go and warmed up, and when the horse has done the job or made his progress we are done, even if we only did one or two trips. There is no point in using up the horse’s legs washing dishes that are already clean, so if the day’s objective has been achieved I am just as happy to pay full price to get the job done in a third of the time, and then see about the next steps in the next lesson.

That said, the trainers know that the horse and rider are in a dedicated, advanced “flat work/dressage” program, so for the jump sessions there is no need to rehash it (although my h/j specialist that I use also trains all his jumpers to PSG, so…).

In less specialized, more general-purpose programs, where there is NOT the expectation, the understanding, and the demonstrated ability which indicates that horse and rider are doing serious homework on their own time, then the trainer needs to make sure both aspects are covered in their lessons.

Your average 2’6"/3’ amateur who rides for pleasure should be getting a flat work education included in their lessons without having to trailer out to a highly specialized clinician at $200 a pop. If someone showed up at my hunter trainer’s place who did NOT have a separate “dressage education program” in place, you bet your titties that would get added on to the front of your lesson.