She was by no means a great racehorse-- $80k in 35 starts is only a little more than $2000/ start. Not nearly enough to pay for board and training fees, never mind profit. And her pedigree isn’t really fashionable for a racehorse (it’s actually got a lot of good lines for sporthorse production, though). OTOH if she is as nice to ride as she looks, $800 could very well turn out to a great deal.
Oh, OK. I really don’t know. That just seems super cheap for a horse that is sound and performed for a long time. Thanks.
[QUOTE=Crockpot;8495345]
When looking at a conformation shot - where does your eye go? (before looking at details- forest for trees)
- First impression-- nice but heavy front end compared to hind end.
Not one to judge solely on conformation- just answering the question.:)[/QUOTE]
She reminds me of my TB Cross mare and agree - heavy front end compared to hind end. She probably has less hock action based on how straight she is behind, which again reminds me of my mare. Laterals may be challenging.
Have to work on a lot of hind end strengthening exercises with my girl due to weak stifles. When she’s fit though, her hind end is not a problem.
yes and I think she looks like a nice horse.
I did look at all the photos and also the video .
There is work to be done as with any OTTB.
Probably a Nice project for the right trainer.
I have seen organizations that pick up these “not fast enough” race horses at auctions etc. If they feel that they will turn out well and passed on to a good home.
I think it’s great to point out details here like you are asking, but always keep in mind (like you probably do) that no horse is perfect and not all perfect horses are perfect mounts.
I guess I do have a question about how an ex racehorse would have an undeveloped hind end? Don’t they need the push from the hind end?
I think she has a lot going for her. A big bonus is her neck placement being extremely good for an ex racehorse.
I bought a Hanovarian once who when my farrier looked at him, he said that the horse stood with his forelegs too underneath him like your horse and said that can be caused by the way the horse was trimmed. If his lo foot was trimmed at a higher angle to match the hi foot, then he maybe standing too underneath himself. His angles seem high for your typical OTTB thorobred. A good farrier is going to place your horse where nature has dictated the healthiest spot. Yes I am hoof obsessed. I think a lot of problems start at the hoof. I’m a retired trimmer, and most of the problems I have seen is heels try to be raised by not trimming them and what they do instead is run too far under the horse. Sorry I run on at this subject, but he looks like a good possibility for a nice horse .
Since you have a horse , you may not be aware of all the knowledge you have accumulated over the years. So have faith in your judgement!
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;8497220]
I think she’s lovely. Question, to you or anyone, why would anyone adopt out this mare for so cheap when she seems to be a good money earner (I have no clue) has such a nice pedigree, and is a mare, so could produce more. $800 seems a major steal of a deal.[/QUOTE]
She was actually donated to New Vocations by her race owners and they tend to lower their adoption fees in the winter because it’s harder to move horses. As a non-profit organization, you might pay a nominal adoption fee but they do a great job of following up and your contract has a 1-year conditional bill of sale that means NV still has an interest in the horse for one year. It’s a great organization and they get many awesome horses directly from race owners. No clue why this mare didn’t stay in the racing world for breeding, but VERY glad she was donated to NV because now she’s standing in my barn 
[QUOTE=kmr1023;8494921]
Any thoughts about this mare’s conformation? She is a 16.2 hand Thoroughbred by Pleasant Tap. Thank you!
Picture at https://goo.gl/photos/hqfif7X39XrvLU9K7[/QUOTE]
Really beautiful.
Lovely mare!
I actually forwarded that listing to a friend as soon as she went up on the site… although she’s not looking to be able to adopt for a few months, but if she were, we agreed that Moon looks like a great prospect. . I really like her shoulder, nice expression, neck set. Yeah, she’s not perfect, but what is? She’s well built and has a presence about her too.
[QUOTE=cb06;8495682]
I like her very much in general, but agree that she is a bit heavy in front.
I would like to see a more forward placed LS and hocks set lower to the ground.
From:
http://useventing.com/sites/default/files/Conformation-Eventer.pdfDraw the same lines on Winsome Adante in the link I posted and you will see it. … from the wither to point of shoulder, then point of shoulder to elbow…WA’s is a much more open angle.[/QUOTE]
I think WA has weird looking back legs, so straight and then very angled fetlocks. Livingstone is visually much more appealing in stance and over fences. (to me) Obviously WA is a superlative horse!
[QUOTE=Gestalt;8498265]
I think WA has weird looking back legs, so straight and then very angled fetlocks. Livingstone is visually much more appealing in stance and over fences. (to me) Obviously WA is a superlative horse![/QUOTE]
WA does have very straight legs and that type of conformation caught up to him. I would read the PDF cb06 posted but do not take it to heart - neither of those two horses are exceptionally conformed. Most horses built like either of those horses do not stay sound in top programs - WA was no exception. i am not sure that having very straight hind legs “aid in collection” - the straighter the hind leg, the smaller the range of motion - it’s the openness of the stifle/femur angle that makes for a larger range of motion…
i generally do not agree with judy waldrope’s eye - she runs the PH conformation clinic and i think a few of her assessments have been quite… interesting. there are many threads about it on here.
OP, that mare’s build is very much my type and she should be absolutely fine for any direction you point her in.
it is important to note that the picture of that mare was not taken straight on.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8498302]
WA does have very straight legs and that type of conformation caught up to him. I would read the PDF cb06 posted but do not take it to heart - neither of those two horses are exceptionally conformed…
… it is important to note that the picture of that mare was not taken straight on.[/QUOTE]
I agree. If anything, that article shows some horses out-perform their conformation…at least for awhile???.
OP, how that mare uses what she’s got, and what’s between her ears are probably the most important factors…
With an OTTB I am always much more concerned about the number of starts. 35 is a fair number of races. Lovely mare for the price, but don’t forget that she ran hard many times way before her joints were fully developed.
I board at a barn that starts race horses. The owner often ends up with a few who come back later in life. I don’t recall any of them holding up over time. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but I have not personally seen it very often.
Wish you all the best with her - glad she has found a good home.
[QUOTE=kmr1023;8495322]
I actually haven’t seen her in person yet so not sure whether it is a scar or a stripe but her movement looks very sound and balanced in both directions. I’m also getting her from somewhere that I really trust so am certain they would have called it out to me if it was an old injury. Fingers crossed that it’s just a stripe :-)[/QUOTE]
I’m glad you posted the link to the other photos (and video). That particular shot she looks a lot more uneven in the pastern angles than I think she really is after looking at the other images. And the ‘stripe’ on the LF turns out to be a bit of grass. :lol: I couldn’t tell in that first photo.
I think she’ll be a lot of fun. Good luck with her!
Beowulf, thanks for the insight. Livingstone and Winsome are both attractive and talented horses. Just more proof that conformation isn’t the be-all/end-all.
[QUOTE=exploding pony;8498972]
With an OTTB I am always much more concerned about the number of starts. 35 is a fair number of races. Lovely mare for the price, but don’t forget that she ran hard many times way before her joints were fully developed.
I board at a barn that starts race horses. The owner often ends up with a few who come back later in life. I don’t recall any of them holding up over time. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but I have not personally seen it very often.
Wish you all the best with her - glad she has found a good home.[/QUOTE]This is very individual to each horse and statements like this really bother me… Sorry.
There are OTTB’s that haven’t made it to the track and are unsound… there are OTTB’s who are of warhorse status and are as sound as a dollar coming off the track. If she had 35 starts and was sound coming off the track… chances are (barring any unforeseen circumstances) she will stay that way.
Good luck with her OP, she’s a gorgeous girl!
[QUOTE=cb06;8498626]
I agree. If anything, that article shows some horses out-perform their conformation…at least for awhile???.
OP, how that mare uses what she’s got, and what’s between her ears are probably the most important factors…[/QUOTE]
In the first 36 hours being at my place she’s proven that she definitely has the right stuff between the ears. I’m so tickled to have this mare in my barn. She’s sweet, curious and proved to be very smart about social interaction with other horses. I love her curious nature because she doesn’t seem like the kind of horse that will “suck back” but rather approach every question you pose with an attitude of “that seems interesting, let’s give it a try”. She’s already a “greet you at the gate” type who sucks up attention but also isn’t pushy about it.
This is one of the many reasons I’ve always wanted a Pleasant Tap mare; I’ve heard such great things and they are all proving true so far. I won’t do any under saddle work with her for a month or two, but over the next few months I’ll start working her on the long lines and free lunging, trotting hills in hand, etc. If anyone is interested in following how she progresses, I’ll post most of it to my page at www.facebook.com/ottbtraining - the goal is to have her compete in the Thoroughbred Makeover in Dressage later this year, but we’re taking one day at a time
I have two of these - no issues so far other than mild arthritis with the 20 year old (that raced and won until 5, then ran for chuckwagons until 11), and some current body/muscle soreness with the 8 year old that just came off the track last summer (normal, I think), that is steadily getting better with chiro/massage and the introductory walk/trot stretchy work we’ve been doing. Guess I haven’t had the 8 year old long enough to know how sound he’ll be, but so far so good!
[QUOTE=exploding pony;8498972]
With an OTTB I am always much more concerned about the number of starts. 35 is a fair number of races. Lovely mare for the price, but don’t forget that she ran hard many times way before her joints were fully developed.
I board at a barn that starts race horses. The owner often ends up with a few who come back later in life. I don’t recall any of them holding up over time. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but I have not personally seen it very often.
Wish you all the best with her - glad she has found a good home.[/QUOTE]
I actually find the complete opposite. I’ll take a horse that had lots of starts over the “lightly raced” horse. The warhorse with lots of starts has proven they can remain sound over time…the lightly raced horse was lightly raced because they probably weren’t holding up very well.
There’s a very cool resource put out by The Jockey Club and Grayson-Jockey Club Research Foundation that ranks race stallions “durability”. The 2015 “Stallion Statistics Seeking Durability, Soundness” report of 2014 sires can be found at https://www.grayson-jockeyclub.org/reso…/Vol%2032-no%201.pdf and Pleasant Tap (sire of this mare) is ranked in the top 100 for 3 different areas on this Stallion Durability report:
22nd for “2014 Sires by Lifetime Starts per Starter”
23rd for “2014 Sires by Lifetime % of Foals of Racing Age Started”
55th for “Top 2014 Sires of Stakes Winners 4 Years Old & Up”
I’m expecting her to remain pretty sound based on her pedigree and the fact that she raced 35 times, but there are never any guarantees, right?
My other mare who only raced twice has sprained tendons, fractured bones, etc and my other mare who raced 88 times is one of the soundest horses I know.
[QUOTE=kmr1023;8499637]
I actually find the complete opposite. I’ll take a horse that had lots of starts over the “lightly raced” horse. The warhorse with lots of starts has proven they can remain sound over time…the lightly raced horse was lightly raced because they probably weren’t holding up very well.
There’s a very cool resource put out by The Jockey Club and Grayson-Jockey Club Research Foundation that ranks race stallions “durability”. The 2015 “Stallion Statistics Seeking Durability, Soundness” report of 2014 sires can be found at https://www.grayson-jockeyclub.org/reso…/Vol%2032-no%201.pdf and Pleasant Tap (sire of this mare) is ranked in the top 100 for 3 different areas on this Stallion Durability report:
22nd for “2014 Sires by Lifetime Starts per Starter”
23rd for “2014 Sires by Lifetime % of Foals of Racing Age Started”
55th for “Top 2014 Sires of Stakes Winners 4 Years Old & Up”
I’m expecting her to remain pretty sound based on her pedigree and the fact that she raced 35 times, but there are never any guarantees, right?
My other mare who only raced twice has sprained tendons, fractured bones, etc and my other mare who raced 88 times is one of the soundest horses I know.[/QUOTE]:)
