What does it mean when a horse touches his nose to your lips?

[Gidget]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I haven’t been around horses all that long and I’m FASCINATED by their behavior.

So far, I’ve had like 4 or 5 geldings reach out and touch me on the mouth with their noses. (Not a shove, just a tap.) Each time it’s been when I’m focused on getting the bridle ready, or talking to the person next to us…in other words, not really “engaging” with the horse at that particular moment.

Since I tend to kiss all the horse I ride on the nose, I assumed they were just “mimicking” me, but I had someone’s Arbaian gelding do this same thing within MINUTES of meeting me.

Oh, and last night I was brushing my (lease) mare’s front legs after our lesson and she reached around and touched my on the behind. Not sure if that’s “quite” the same thing, but I thought it was pretty funny. :lol:

I’m just curious, does this behavior fall under good, bad or pretty much meaningless?

[Ticker]

You need to be very careful with your face and other body parts, a horse can break your nose or shove it into your brain in a flash…while giving a little kiss…by accident.

[PlanB]

[QUOTE=Gidget;7632885]
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I haven’t been around horses all that long and I’m FASCINATED by their behavior.

So far, I’ve had like 4 or 5 geldings reach out and touch me on the mouth with their noses. (Not a shove, just a tap.) Each time it’s been when I’m focused on getting the bridle ready, or talking to the person next to us…in other words, not really “engaging” with the horse at that particular moment.

Since I tend to kiss all the horse I ride on the nose, I assumed they were just “mimicking” me, but I had someone’s Arbaian gelding do this same thing within MINUTES of meeting me.

Oh, and last night I was brushing my (lease) mare’s front legs after our lesson and she reached around and touched my on the behind. Not sure if that’s “quite” the same thing, but I thought it was pretty funny. :lol:

I’m just curious, does this behavior fall under good, bad or pretty much meaningless?[/QUOTE]

It means they have poor manners and you don’t enforce boundaries.

[Appsolute]

Yeah I am not sure what the “meaning” is - but do be careful! Horses are very big and strong, and if they decided to “groom” your face with their teeth - the way they groom another horse - they could do a lot of damage.

I will NEVER forget when I was a kid, a teen from our circle of horse girls had her lower lip BIT OFF by a horse she was playing around with. I guess he didn’t even give a hint of being aggressive, but she had her face in his - and bam!

I admit - I do give my horse “kisses” but ONLY from the side - where she is a bit less likely to clock me in the nose should she toss her head due to a fly or something - and she is the only horse I will get my face next too (I have had raised her since she was just a few months old).

Every other horse - I just don’t get my face that close. My TB clocked me in the face / nose enough times when I just wasn’t paying attention and got my noggin to close to his.

As for as the fanny nudge - sometimes they just like to check us out - sometimes they will start to groom and nip. Do pay close attention - again, I really trust mine after all of these years together, but any other horse, I usually move their head away because many WILL nip!

[Anne_FS]

It means you may get your lips ripped off. By any chance have these horses been taught the “take the carrot from my mouth” trick?

[Appsolute]

Oh and Giget - please do not take any offense! But from some of your postings, and reading about your handling of horses, I think this would be a good read:

http://www.alphaequestrian.com/blog-6-9-14.html#.U5Y0CBKBn-c.facebook

Now, I don’t like the word “mean” the author uses, I think “assertive” is a better adjective - but I think the point made is very valid.

Horses (like children, or dogs etc) appreciate BOUNDARIES. They like a strong leader who makes their will CLEAR. A horse likes a confident leader who tells them what to do, and PRAISES them when they do it. Letting a horse make too many choices on their own will leave them feeling insecure and not confident, and a strong minded horse will decide if you are not going to be the leader - well then THEY will be the leader - and that usually does not work out too well

In a herd setting - a horse will not touch or get in the space of a dominate horse unless it is INVITED. Close snuggles with a horse can be great, but make sure you are the one initiating and inviting the horse - instead of the horse feeling that it is the one that is dominate in the relationship and calling the shots.

I know you said you took charge with your mare recently, and she responded beautifully. She probably took a breath - “phew - I don’t have to worry about calling the shots and making the decisions, I have a strong leader (like a alpha mare) that will lead the way, show me what to do, and keep me safe”

[BEARCAT]

They like your lip gloss/chap stick?

[fburton]

[QUOTE=PlanB;7632906]
It means they have poor manners and you don’t enforce boundaries.[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. The person’s boundaries, rigorously enforced, may have included this bit of ‘cute’ behaviour.

[fburton]

[QUOTE=Gidget;7632885]
I’m just curious, does this behavior fall under good, bad or pretty much meaningless?[/QUOTE]
Maybe he is smelling your nose-breath. No behaviour is completely meaningless, and whether it is good or bad depends mainly on whether you (or other people on your behalf) think it is good or bad.

[Jealoushe]

Whoa people, relax.

My one horse does this all the time, but I try and teach them “kiss” when I kiss the side of their mouth. He opens his lips and slobers on my face. He occasionally bumps my arm and stuff like that too with his nose when I am brushing him or in the stall with him. I take it as a sign of affection. He is being very snuggly at these times.

[Gidget]

Thanks, everyone! These are ALL great comments and I appreciate every single one of them. And no, I didn’t find any of them offensive.

It’s very possible I’m TOO comfortable around horses at times. I know I’m super-relaxed around dogs (even large dogs) and don’t think twice about putting my face up in theirs…BUT I’ve also been around them all my life and am good about reading their body-language.

I’m glad I asked the question today, because it’s sounds like I might need to learn a few things.

[HungarianHippo]

Jealoushe – I get it but the line between snuggly-but-respectful and a horse pushing boundaries is not often visible or handled correctly by a young novice such as the OP. Minor pushy and disrespectful behavior is too often anthropomorphized into something “cute” (or excused away as evidence of prior “abuse”), and that stuff snowballs pretty quickly into Reall Bad Manners.
I was travelling for work for abut 10days so Mr HH was feeding grain 2x a day. He’s decent with the horses but doesn’t see that “line” so he doesn’t correct the tiny infringements. After only 10 days of a slightly permissive approach, my mare (who normally stands quietly and turns her head away slightly until I put the grain down) was pushing her shoulder into my space, was wrinkling the corners of her mouth and being generally pissy that I had not put the grain down yet. Ten days was all it took for some annoying manners to surface.

The rules for a novice do need to be a bit more black and white, than perhaps for a seasoned horseperson with a better eye for nuance and/an adult appreciation for the risk they’re knowingly taking when they bend the rules.

[Gidget]

Thanks, Hippo!

I think you summed it up very well, at least in my case. At this point, I wouldn’t DREAM of assuming I know it all. That’s when accidents happen, right? :eek:

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=HungarianHippo;7633107]

The rules for a novice do need to be a bit more black and white, than perhaps for a seasoned horseperson with a better eye for nuance and/an adult appreciation for the risk they’re knowingly taking when they bend the rules.[/QUOTE]

Understood - was not aware OP was a novice. Thanks for clarifying.

[RhythmNCruise]

I trust my own horses enough to let them do this type of thing, because I’ve owned them for most of (if not all) of their lives and we know each other very well. However, after watching my good friend get savagely attacked by the gelding she’d raised since weaned when they were “playing” in his stall at a show, I am very wary of horses I don’t know that well. Before witnessing that incident, I was pretty nonchalant about the “danger” of horses. I’d never experienced any aggression from any of the MANY I’d been around since I was a kid. My friend’s horse changed my thinking.

If you watch horses interact with each other, sometimes they’ll reach out a curious nose to a pasturemate’s nose or lips. They blow in each others’ noses as a greeting (I’ve been known to blow in my guys’ noses). That greeting may end peacefully, or it may end in the initiator deciding to assert dominance and take a bite out of the other. I keep that in mind when a strange horse (as in, one I’ve not known for quite a long time) tries to initiate contact with me.

[Gidget]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7632930]
Oh and Giget - please do not take any offense! But from some of your postings, and reading about your handling of horses, I think this would be a good read:

http://www.alphaequestrian.com/blog-6-9-14.html#.U5Y0CBKBn-c.facebook

Now, I don’t like the word “mean” the author uses, I think “assertive” is a better adjective - but I think the point made is very valid.

Horses (like children, or dogs etc) appreciate BOUNDARIES. They like a strong leader who makes their will CLEAR. A horse likes a confident leader who tells them what to do, and PRAISES them when they do it. Letting a horse make too many choices on their own will leave them feeling insecure and not confident, and a strong minded horse will decide if you are not going to be the leader - well then THEY will be the leader - and that usually does not work out too well

In a herd setting - a horse will not touch or get in the space of a dominate horse unless it is INVITED. Close snuggles with a horse can be great, but make sure you are the one initiating and inviting the horse - instead of the horse feeling that it is the one that is dominate in the relationship and calling the shots.

I know you said you took charge with your mare recently, and she responded beautifully. She probably took a breath - “phew - I don’t have to worry about calling the shots and making the decisions, I have a strong leader (like a alpha mare) that will lead the way, show me what to do, and keep me safe”[/QUOTE]

Hi Appsolute!

Thanks for taking the time to provide the link. I will DEFINITELY check it out.

Cheers,

G.

[Gidget]

[QUOTE=RhythmNCruise;7633168]
I trust my own horses enough to let them do this type of thing, because I’ve owned them for most of (if not all) of their lives and we know each other very well. However, after watching my good friend get savagely attacked by the gelding she’d raised since weaned when they were “playing” in his stall at a show, I am very wary of horses I don’t know that well. Before witnessing that incident, I was pretty nonchalant about the “danger” of horses. I’d never experienced any aggression from any of the MANY I’d been around since I was a kid. My friend’s horse changed my thinking.

If you watch horses interact with each other, sometimes they’ll reach out a curious nose to a pasturemate’s nose or lips. They blow in each others’ noses as a greeting (I’ve been known to blow in my guys’ noses). That greeting may end peacefully, or it may end in the initiator deciding to assert dominance and take a bite out of the other. I keep that in mind when a strange horse (as in, one I’ve not known for quite a long time) tries to initiate contact with me.[/QUOTE]

This is all good stuff. Again, THANK YOU.

Just so you all don’t think I’m “completely” brain dead, I do try to pay attention to the horse’s body-language & facial expression before getting too close…even with those I feel like I’ve gotten to know really well. Just because a horse is relaxed and welcoming my affection one day (or even one minute), doesn’t mean it can’t change.

I’ve also trained myself from the beginning to NEVER walk around their back end unless I’m well out of kicking distance. I remember being shocked when my lease mare’s owner stood close behind her with her hands on her haunches while checking to see if my sidesaddle was straight. When I asked, “You stand behind her like that???” She said, “Oh, she won’t kick.”

Well, guess what? Just the other day she tried to kick another woman when I had her in the cross ties. I didn’t see it, but our instructor did. Afterwards I was given STRICT instructions to groom & tack her in her stall from now on.

[Gidget]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;7633137]
Understood - was not aware OP was a novice. Thanks for clarifying.[/QUOTE]

No worries, Jealoushe. I get that most of you are WAY more experienced than I am, so I don’t just “assume” I can pull off the same things you might do with your own horses. I’m cognizent of the risks, which is why I’m always asking questions.

I will say, all of my instructors (I’ve had around 5 or 6 at this point) have observed my interactions with horses VERY closely and, so far, none of them have freaked out over anything they’ve seen me doing.

The only things I’ve been corrected on (back when I was a total beginner) are “Don’t let them use you as a scratching post!” and “NEVER let them push you back with their heads!” I’ve taken those words to heart and l live by them…NO exceptions.

[Gidget]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;7632923]
It means you may get your lips ripped off. By any chance have these horses been taught the “take the carrot from my mouth” trick?[/QUOTE]

Hi Anne!

Sorry, I missed your question earlier.

I’m not sure, but it’s possible. Personally, even I think the “carrot in the mouth” trick is pretty risky. Putting your mouth near ANY animal while it’s eating seems almost like asking for it somehow.

[AmarachAcres]

The black & white stance for beginners is something I live by. But if you search, there is a COTH confession thread where most of us have admitted to breaking many of these rules.

Every horse/human interaction is different. Play it safe for as long as possible, watch and learn from every horse you can.

Overall the behavior you wrote of is something my horses have done, but I know them very very well. My gelding for example has been with me for 17 years, so I let him interact differently than my mare of 1 year with me.

It sounds like you want to learn the right way, keep it up.